Firefly Episode Discussions

Hands of Blue + Playing with Brains = Reavers?

POSTED BY: TenthCrewMember
UPDATED: Friday, March 18, 2005 21:05
VIEWED: 8360
PAGE 1 of 3

TENTHCREWMEMBER

Sunday, October 10, 2004 3:21 PM

Something I mentioned on our local Firefly list as it just *popped* into my brain ...

What if Reavers aren't simply crazy men on the edge of space...what if they were projects of the Hands of Blue, much like River is, except they were "failed" projects (and when I say failed I mean either truly a mistake, or simply a project that "no longer exists").

River/Reaver, hmmm.

Makes sense why the Alliance is always quick to dispel the notion that "Reavers did it", especially given how many people "know" of them.

CILANTR!
TCM

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SPOOKYJESUS

Sunday, October 10, 2004 3:51 PM

This could work.....

Their brains have been fucked with so they're reverting back to a more feral state.

Since they're all psycic/telepaths any one in their proximity get their own brains caught up in the evil brain buzz and turn feral their own selves.

CHEYENNECM

Tuesday, October 12, 2004 6:24 PM

I've felt for a mighty long time that the Reavers were a Blue Sun project gone awry. Or perhaps even intentionally loosed.

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BLUEBOMBER

Saturday, February 12, 2005 7:36 AM

I notice no one's responded to this thread in a while. I think it's a fascinating question, so I'll try to re-open the discussion, if y'all don't mind.

I do think the Reavers were likely spawned by Blue Sun. They were probably failed experiments - though I don't know why Blue Sun would release them instead of just killing them. River, possessing natural talents and a gifted mind, was probably in the same experiment/project/mission/whatever, but she fared better than the Reavers due to her superior intellect.

This would explain why River is able to sense the Reavers before anyone else (see "Serenity II," "Bushwhacked"). She has a common link with them. Had Simon not ripped her out of the Academy, she wouldn't have turned out like them, but much more evolved than any ordinary human. She's only crazy because her programming is incomplete.

The Reavers' programming is also incomplete. However, they are far worse off because, again, their will is too weak to endure whatever torture Blue Sun put to them.

Assume the Reavers are a creation of Blue Sun, and Blue Sun is some commercial extension/entity/subsidiary/partner of the Alliance government. I think that it's interesting how the Alliance, which represents order, structure and discipline, and the Reavers, the epitome of chaos and madness, can have so much in common. To Mal and River, at least, the two might as well be the same.

DJ

THEGREYJEDI

Saturday, February 12, 2005 9:25 AM

I have to disagree. You often hear tall of people who once belong to a civilized society going ape-snot due to isolation. Have any of you ever been camping for a week or so? There are some people that you just start to hate. These are civilians, not trained military. So these people, settlers, are stuck on this hunk of worthless moon with little or no help or supplies. For years. Decades. No contact with the Alliance. Weeks and months from the next closest world. Over time, these settlements, the people in them, devolve into madness. It's almost like they went so far out, they became tainted by their distance from humanity, but the vast emptiness of space. So they go mad. Crazy psycho living by impulse cannabalistic mad. It might have started as simple as one remote moon as severe food shortages. So the biggest and baddest start killing off the weak for food. Then it's only them. And instead of devouring each other, one takes the notion to grab a ship and go. And they do. And it's months, maybe years that they've been at this cannabalistic, rape pillage plunder burn stuff, and it gnawed and gnawed and gnawed at their souls, their consciences until nothing was left but raw bone. Pure beast, no humanity. So they went. And it spread. They'd leave the one behind. And the only way to survive was to become. And it spreads.

River can sense them because the sheer power of that much raw viscera makes a potent stench, so to speak. She's got senses we don't understand, so she can feel the unmitigated corruption and evil the way we feel the wave of heat from a gas explosion or the bone-deep chill of a icy wind.

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SOUPCATCHER

Saturday, February 12, 2005 9:46 AM

I completely agree with TheGreyJedi. (I guess that means I completely disagree with the earlier posts... - Okay, I'm confused already).

I would be very disappointed if there was any tie-in between Blue Sun/River and the Reavers. One of the reasons I think the Reavers are such a scary presence for those out on the rim is the whole "there but for the grace of God go I" factor.

They're the ultimate extension of man's inhumanity to man, brought on by pushing the envelope just a little too far. That humans can get that way, all on their own, is what's scariest.

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"What sort of raw meat do you people feed your cruiser captains, Hamish?" - Queen Elizabeth III of Manticore

TLACOOK

Saturday, February 12, 2005 10:19 AM

I was told my post said something by saying nothing so I deleted it.

TENTHCREWMEMBER

Saturday, February 12, 2005 3:40 PM

Well, TLA, that was a lot of nothing you just said.

I am glad to see this thread got revived, and that there are other viewpoints as well as ones that agree.

Personally, I think the fact that the character is named River is a subtle indicator to her connection to the Reavers, however distant it may be. River - Reaver. Too close to be coincidence, in my mind. So to get back to something someone stated earlier about why if Reavers were a failed project, did they let them go...perhaps they escaped. Ate the people who made them, stole their ship(s) and bam! They are now a spaceborne threat.

Let's look at this with a logical progression:

The Alliance decides the system is too big to logically control effectively as a governing body, yet being government, they won't give up that power. They commission a project, in secret, to begin on ways of controlling people.

Scientists, working for Blue Sun build a facility way out on the rim when they begin this project because, simply stated, if anyone knew, that would be bad for arguably the largest provider of goods and services to the civil worlds. Not to mention they've probably done other work for the Government that people do and don't know about (military vehicles, weapons,supersoldier drugs (performance enhancers), protien bars...)

It goes south in a hurry. Something they did goes wrong, wholesale fashion. It escalates quickly, too quickly, and everyone is killed by the "project" and for whatever reason, no message or signal is, or can be sent.

By the time anyone gets there to investigate the situation, the "project" is no where to be found, only dead scientists and one missing ship. Everything is cleaned up, data collected, and it is brushed under the carpet. The project, as it was ends there, and plausible deniability can begin.

However, after a few years of researching the data, someone decides they have a better way. They build the Academy and restart the project in a slightly different fashion. Instead of the "expendable" lab rats whose brains failed to handle the reprogramming, they go for the genius children of the future, honing and cultivating them. (Possibly Jubal Early was among them, but that is speculation to a whole new level!)

Meanwhile, the Reaver project runs loose in space, attacking settlements and ships in the ass end of the system, where the Alliance doesn't feel the need to spend resources, and therefore aren't directly exposed to the threat...though it probably has happened and they simply cover it up and deny it exists. "Do you know how many times I've heard 'Reavers did it'?"

Reavers also show that, despite their feral nature, they are intelligent enough to
a) fly ships (Serenity, Bushwhacked)
b) set traps (Bushwhacked)
c) stalk a ship instead of attacking to see if it leads to more food (Serenity)
d) leave a sole survivor most likely with the intent of spreading their madness (Bushwhacked)
e) herd their cattle(people) (Bushwhacked: all those bodies locked in one chamber and no evidence of violence anywhere else? They coerced them all into one location and then descended on them like wolves on sheep in a pen...perhaps they have an unconcious telepathic ability to project fear so people do not fight back. again new speculation)
f) perform rituals (Bushwhacked: the bodies all tied up together in one chamber probably has signifigance; Serenity: Zoe talks about how they rape, eat and most importantly, sew the skin of their victims into their clothes)

So savages they are, but mindless zombies, not so much. They probably have a pack mentality, and will even feed off their own if food gets scarce...but then again the Alliance just keeps sending (encouraging) people out to the rim, so dinner arrives with free delivery.

Just some food for thought. Feel free to agree/disagree.

(as an aside, who else noticed that the transport in Bushwhacked belonged to the same TG Freight company that was Badger's (see the sign as Mal enters his office in Serenity) on Persephone?)

Cilantro!
TCM

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BLUEBOMBER

Sunday, February 13, 2005 7:06 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by SoupCatcher:

I would be very disappointed if there was any tie-in between Blue Sun/River and the Reavers. One of the reasons I think the Reavers are such a scary presence for those out on the rim is the whole "there but for the grace of God go I" factor.

They're the ultimate extension of man's inhumanity to man, brought on by pushing the envelope just a little too far. That humans can get that way, all on their own, is what's scariest.

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Why do you say you'd be disappointed? Do you think that, were it not for Simon, River could end up being just as dangerous - or possibly even more dangerous - as the Reavers?

DJ

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SOUPCATCHER

Sunday, February 13, 2005 9:08 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by BlueBomber:
Why do you say you'd be disappointed? Do you think that, were it not for Simon, River could end up being just as dangerous - or possibly even more dangerous - as the Reavers?

DJ

In advance, I should warn you that this entry is sponsored by two-buck-chuck

(I should've learned by now that, after years spent acquainting my liver with Budweiser, trying to throw wine into the mix would just mess everything up)...

I have no problem with River ending up as dangerous as the Reavers. I just have a problem with introducing Blue Sun (or any outside agency) as the cause of the Reavers. It would be a cop-out, in my mind.

To me, the Reavers are terrifying because they represent a state that anyone could attain. If the only reason that people are Reavers is because they've been experimented on by an outside agency then all you have to do to avoid becoming a Reaver is avoid that outside agency. If, instead, people became Reavers because their minds could just not handle being out in the black then everyone is a potential Reaver.

What's more terrifying: being in a situation where insanity is the only defense mechanism, or being forced to become insane through experimentation?

I'll accept whatever Joss decides to do with the Reavers in the BDM, it's his baby after all. I'll go see it as many times as I can afford. But I think that coming up with an outside agent as a cause for the Reavers dilutes their power.

Of course, it could also just be the wine talking

Quote:
Originally posted by TenthCrewMember
f) perform rituals (Bushwhacked: the bodies all tied up together in one chamber probably has signifigance; Serenity: Zoe talks about how they rape, eat and most importantly, sew the skin of their victims into their clothes)

The first time I saw the episode, that hanging collection of bodies reminded me of slabs of beef in a freezer. I just assumed that the Reavers had left a little stash. If they ever got hungry they could come back and snack a little. Anybody caught in the boobytrap was just gravy.

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"What sort of raw meat do you people feed your cruiser captains, Hamish?" - Queen Elizabeth III of Manticore