Conservatives have no ideas what to do about recessions

POSTED BY: kpo
UPDATED: Monday, March 9, 2026 17:30
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SIGNYM

Saturday, January 25, 2014 11:22 PM

The point of the thread is that conservatives have NO IDEAS what to do about recessions. You're a conservative. You keep saying over and over again that you have NO IDEAS what to do about recessions. In fact, you just said so- again: Nothing the government can do will make a difference.* You keep proving the point of the thread with every post you make, and despite the fact that you keep trying to turn this into a thread about liberal ideas on recessions, this is one time when the topic is NOT all about me, it's all about you.

Also, if you insist that nothing the government does can make a difference, then the government is free do do anything it wants: print money, not print money, redistribute money- it's all the same. So "staying the course" is just an arbitrary choice which you have no defense for.

GEEZER

Saturday, January 25, 2014 11:29 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
The point of the thread is that conservatives have NO IDEAS what to do about recessions. You're a conservative. You keep saying over and over again that you have NO IDEAS what to do about recessions. In fact, you just said so- again. You keep proving the point of the thread with every post you make, and despite the fact that you keep trying to turn this into a thread about liberal ideas on recessions, this is one time when the topic is NOT all about me, it's all about you.

Try to make it look like I'm proposing something I'm not, go off on the "Can't Prove" route, drag more red herrings into the discussion, and I'll ignore you.

"When your heart breaks, you choose what to fill the cracks with. Love or hate. But hate won't ever heal. Only love can do that."

SIGNYM

Saturday, January 25, 2014 11:33 PM

What you have proposed, geezer, very clearly, over and over again, is that it is not possible to demonstrate to your satisfaction that ANY policy shortens or reduces the severity of recessions. In your view, no proposals meet your level of proof, and therefore no proposals are likely to be effective. In fact, you've implied that not only is there lack of proof, but that government policies are in fact ineffective in shortening recessions or reducing recessions.

Quote:
Or one might ask if the government actually has anything to do with ending recessions.- geezer

But because you reject the idea that ANY policy makes a difference, you have completely undercut not only the Keynesian approach but also ANY OTHER approach, including the libertarian approach. This is something I've brought up several times.

Quote:
If this is the case- that government policies don't end recessions/ depressions one way or another- then clearly they can't initiate them either. Because, if you can't improve something, you've got no levers to make it worse either. In effect, what you're saying is that government policy has NO effect on economic performance whatsoever. Well, if that is the case, then it doesn't matter WHAT government does. Tax at 100%? Tax at 0%? Print money? Don't print money? Create jobs programs? Tariff imports? Hey, it's all good! Right?

Quote:
Also, if you insist that nothing the government does can make a difference, then the government is free do do anything it wants: print money, not print money, redistribute money- it's all the same. So "staying the course" is just an arbitrary choice which you have no defense for.

So as I've said more than once logically you can't advise to "stay the course"

Quote:
passive response- geezer

because you've got no justification for it, you can't advise to reduce the money supply because you've got no justification for it, you can't argue for

Quote:
lower taxes, less regulation, government spending cuts, more domestic energy production, school choice, free trade, and low inflation

and you can't argue against redistributing wealth you've got no justification for that either. By trying to argue Keynesianism into muteness by demanding "proof" of effectiveness, you've argued libertarianism into muteness as well.

Also, if the government can't in fact shorten recessions or make them less bad by any policy, as you've implied, then it can't make them worse either. Therefore, the government has NO EFFECT on the economy whatsoever- neither good nor bad. As a result, all of the libertarian arguments against government crumble, because the point of libertarianism is that government has a "bad effect" on economies. That means, to clarify the point, that everything which happens in an economy, all of the good plus all of the bad- depressions, unemployment, wealth inequality- is due solely to business. The job creators who failed to create jobs, and the economic movers who failed to move the economy can't blame the government for... anything.

So, since all approaches are unlikely to be able to be shown to have any effect (according to you) that means that YOUR favorite approach (whatever that is) won't have any effect either. Therefore, Keynesians could have a free hand with money-printing because you can't show otherwise.

Now, you COULD say that you haven't taken an approach, that you're not supporting libertarianism or arguing against Keynesianism (altho it seems clear to me that you are). You could revert back to your statement that it is impossible to demonstrate to your satisfaction that ANY policy makes a difference. But then that gets us back to Conservatives have no ideas what to do about recessions. Or possibly that conservatives Do have ideas, but that Geezer doesn't.

http://i25.photobucket.com/a

SIGNYM

Sunday, January 26, 2014 8:16 PM

bump for geezer. I have tried to make this as logically explicit as possible. It it seems that I'm beating a point to death, I am.

Also

Quote:
I might ask why we should care about Josh Barros' opinion, since he's just one guy. But I prefer to discuss the actual issue.

almost immediately followed by

Quote:
I'll drop it if SignyM does.

GEEZER

Sunday, January 26, 2014 11:45 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
What you have proposed, geezer, very clearly, over and over again, is that it is not possible to demonstrate to your satisfaction that ANY policy shortens or reduces the severity of recessions. In your view, no proposals meet your level of proof, and therefore no proposals are likely to be effective.

No one has actually shown any evidence that a particular set of actions do, in fact, work. It's been mostly "Trust me. This works"

Once again, all you have to do is enumerate this set of actions (although they should probably be similar to those described in the article, since that's my basis for the whole discussion), then show where the application of those actions, and no others, ended recessions under the conditions noted. Then you need to show that other actions, or no action at all, did not end recessions under the conditions noted.

You are convinced/think/trust/believe (take your pick, or provide your own word) that the liberal ideas work. Shouldn't be hard to explain why and provide examples.

Do that and I'll discuss it with you.

Quote:
In fact, you've implied that not only is there lack of proof, but that government policies are in fact ineffective in shortening recessions or reducing recessions.
Quote:
Or one might ask if the government actually has anything to do with ending recessions.- geezer

I'm saying I'm not convinced that any particular actions shorten recessions. So convince me.

Quote:
But because you reject the idea that ANY policy makes a difference, you have completely undercut not only the Keynesian approach but also ANY OTHER approach, including the libertarian approach. This is something I've brought up several times.

No. I QUESTION whether any policy makes a difference. I haven't rejected anything, I'm just asking to be convinced.

SignyM, you're trying to argue with me about our different points of view as to what ends recessions. I don't have a point of view. I wonder if any ideas end them faster than any other (or none at all), be it liberal conservative libertarian, or whatever.

As noted above, and several other times, give me your ideas and evidence that they have worked, preferably with no other external events that might also have an effect.

You know what you believe. State it.

"When your heart breaks, you choose what to fill the cracks with. Love or hate. But hate won't ever heal. Only love can do that."

SIGNYM

Monday, January 27, 2014 12:28 AM

Okay, so we get back to GEEZER has no ideas what to do about recessions. You've made that abundantly plain.

As far as enumerating my ideas... I have already, but your required level of proof is ridiculously high. That is a well-characterized rhetorical device designed to quash the opponent, but with no basis in logic or fact.

But there is NO economic policy (either conservative or liberal) which has been applied in isolation, under the kind of controlled experimental conditions that you require. That is why the only way to understand what is going on with economies (and other complex systems which cannot be experimented with, such as star systems and global climate shift) is to propose various mechanisms... hypotheses about how things are linked together... and then test the evidence to see if the hypothesis is supported. But given that many factors are operating at any one time, the data is going to be scattered. One needs to be patient and perceptive to tease out the various causes. It doesn't help, tho, if bad information keeps getting tossed into the mix, such as The European government debt caused the meltdown when in fact it was the other way around.

Since you've also made it abundantly clear that unless you get PROOF POSITIVE about any particular proposals- there's no point in discussing this further. At least, not with you.

SIGNYM

Saturday, February 1, 2014 9:47 PM

So KPO et al, since our local conservatives have admitted to having no ideas what to do about recessions, but we seem to have plenty, I think this deserves a new thread for discussion.

GEEZER

Monday, February 3, 2014 7:13 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Okay, so we get back to GEEZER has no ideas what to do about recessions. You've made that abundantly plain.

You know, when you ask me a question, I at least have the courtesy to answer you directly, rather than with a "Obviously, SignyM thinks Marxist/Keynesian theory will set everything right, and rainbows will come out of our butts." snipe.

If you want to discuss this with me, address me.

"When your heart breaks, you choose what to fill the cracks with. Love or hate. But hate won't ever heal. Only love can do that."

SIGNYM

Monday, February 3, 2014 10:25 PM

Quote:
You know, when you ask me a question, I at least have the courtesy to answer you directly, rather than with a "Obviously, SignyM thinks Marxist/Keynesian theory will set everything right, and rainbows will come out of our butts." snipe. If you want to discuss this with me, address me- geezer

I did.

Quote:
Okay, so we get back to GEEZER has no ideas what to do about recessions. You've made that abundantly plain-signy.

You have said, over and over and over and over that you have no idea which policy, if any, would help an economy thru a recession. I have addressed that to you many times. The comment "GEEZER has no ideas what to do..." was quoting a post TO YOU about your position; it was one of several possibilities that might describe your position. As you yourself have made abundantly plain, it does in fact describe what you think.

I addressed you directly in that post, in this post, and in the post which prompted your comment. Other than addressing you as "you", what else can I do to make it more plain that I am talking TO YOU, and not about you??

JEWELSTAITEFAN

Thursday, September 18, 2014 6:39 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by kpo:
Very good article:

http://www.businessinsider.com/conservatives-have-no-idea-what-to-do-a
bout-recessions-2013-12#ixzz2ngv5fJ4P

Quote:
To be clear, conservatives absolutely do have an economic policy agenda. They favor lower taxes, less regulation, government spending cuts, more domestic energy production, school choice, free trade, and low inflation. They often cite these policies as ones that might alleviate recession and speed recovery. They favor these policies now, they favored them in 2008, and they favored them in 2004.

That is, conservatives favor the same set of economic policies when the economy is weak and when it is strong; when unemployment is high and when it is low; when few homeowners are facing foreclosure and when many are. The implication is that conservatives believe there is nothing in particular the government should do about economic cycles.

Well conservatives, is it true?

You are trying to assume that government SHOULD do something to control economic cycles, or perhaps control the Health Care of private citizens.
These are not within the purview of National Defense, Immigration, or retaining Justice by curtailing the overreach of Big Government.
If your question considered that these goals are antithematic to true conservatives, it would show what little intellectual honesty you possess, or maybe just how dense you are.

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