Why does Jesus hate Freedom?
POSTED BY: Succatash
UPDATED: Monday, December 1, 2008 19:24
VIEWED: 10827
PAGE 4 of 6
Actually, I prefer the old Roman lies to the current Christian fundamentalist ones.
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Quote:
Just in case lightning becomes particularly attacted to the blasphemous and irreverent, I will stay over there where they aren't.
The words are "yonder" and "ain't"! As in "I will stay over yonder where they ain't."
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1) Love this, don't find it blasphemous in the slightest.
2) Love all the Jesus as pacifist/socialist quotes. Agree with them.
3) Historically, there was a person named Jesus Christ. Whether you believe the Christian faith or not (and I personally do, very much- it is my life's goal to keep my Christianity is at the core of my person for the very reasons set forth in the aforementioned pacifist/socialist quotes, among others), his existence is well documented.
4) There is a huge difference between Christianity and what most people think of as Christian fundamentalists, which often is very contrary to the very message of love and peace which Christianity is all about.
"Peace I leave with you, my peace I give you. Not as the world tives, give I unto you. Do not let your hearts be troubled, and do not be afraid." John 14:27
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Thought I might re-post this Firefly Lord's Prayer I made a while back.
http://www.strangefinger.com/Firefly-Prayer.mp3
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Quote:
Originally posted by rangrbob:
I wonder if someone could make a similar ad calling God a flip flopper.
In the OT God said "An eye for an eye"
Yet in the NT his son (and third half) said "Turn the other cheak"
In the OT he was Vengefull (sp)
In the NT he is a Pacifist
In the NT he is telling us to be pacifists. He still says vengeance is his (Rom 12:19). Could call him a hypocrite I guess.
Um, I'm lost. Uh, I'm Angry. And I'm Armed.
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Quote:
Originally posted by Duey:
4) There is a huge difference between Christianity and what most people think of as Christian fundamentalists, which often is very contrary to the very message of love and peace which Christianity is all about.
Unfortunately many people confuse Evangelical with fundamentalism, even some within the Evangelical and fundamentalist movement.
I think fundamentalism regardless of religion is more of a counter cultural movement than it is a religious denomination.
Um, I'm lost. Uh, I'm Angry. And I'm Armed.
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Just some personal thoughts:
I'm not religious, but I find meaning in different teachings.
"The name that can be named is not the enduring and unchanging name." from the Laozi
"When you know yourselves, then you will be known, and you will understand that you are children of the living Father. But if you do not know yourselves, then you live in poverty, and you are the poverty." from the Gospel of Thomas
Many people achieved deep insight into how do we get along in the world, and with each other.
Over two decades ago I listened to an (I think) 6 part series on CBC radio about the explosion of religious thought around the globe that accompanied agriculture and settlement. It occurred to me that these teachings tell us something about our inner workings and about the societies we create. Not that I have made a serious study, but I try not to turn away insights, though I have not a lot of tolerance for dogma.
I also have become interested in game theory (due to the thoughts of someone much smarter and more deeply curious than I), and the idea that our societies may be driven by vaster and more subtle mechanisms than we have discovered to date (same person).
So I was primed to hear an interview of Jane Goodall when she described how she wanted to observe chimps (P troglodytes), put fruit in a big pile and spent months observing domination beahvior before she realized it was a pathological situation. Perhaps the societies we form due to our technology are like Goodall's chimps.
Anyway, I do enjoy these topics.
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I definitely agree that there is something pathological about human behavior.
Biologicaly speaking, I think it stems from the fact that the 'I' a person uses to refer to himself is the product of a dynamic interaction of multiple (often conflicting) elements. I hold that a person's brain and body is made of interacting systems and that consciousness is the product of those interactions not one system in particular. A person is greater than the sum of his parts, but neither is he in harmony with himself.
Religion being an attempt to understand the universe the person finds himself in and his place in it (to find harmony both internally and externally). Some people think this means it is a copout, a simple solution to unanswerable questions, but I don't think so. Any religion can be reduced to ritual or worse superstition, there is an unfortunate tendency among people to simplify religions down to a list of actions that can be done to create that harmony. I am not knocking ritual, it is a valuable part of any religion, provided it is still connected to the concepts it represents.
I find that technology treats symptoms rather than root problems. Far too large a topic to go into here in this thread.
Um, I'm lost. Uh, I'm Angry. And I'm Armed.
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Just a few comments for now:
Scientists who study these things say chimps and dolphins have some level of personal identity and consciousness. On the other hand, another person I know (who is also very astute) believes that it is exclusive to humans b/c we have speech, which provides an 'external' framework for our thoughts that reflects back to us from an 'outside' perspective. (I'm lucky to know many smart, thoughtful, curious people, from whom I've learned almost everything I know.) Books I have read have largely punted on the question of where DOES it reside in the human brain and how does it function. I don't really have a conclusion, largely because I don't know enough to resolve the issue or come up with a viable alternative. (As I've said about other topics, better minds than mine will have to put it together.)
But to get to the issue of technology and pathological societies: I am convinced humans evolved semi-aquatically, in a challenging, but safe (no predators), environment. We had to think for our food and water - how to carry water over distances, how to dig up clams, break mussels off rocks, catch little fish and other small critters etc. I'm guessing food was widely distributed and available year-round to those who could manage to get it. That would be similar to chimps, who live in tropical areas where trees fruit sporadically throughout the year, in other words, where food is widely available. By piling it up into one spot, Goodall presented them with a condition they didn't evolve resolutions for. Perhaps agriculture is the same way for humans. It puts the necessities of life in one concentrated spot, capable of being dominated by individuals. From thence, social interactions based on hierarchies (and appeasement of dominant individuals) arose, and on from there to our present-day societies.
It's just my thought that this (the technology of agriculture) could be one of those vast yet subtle drivers of human behaviour we haven't yet accounted for.
Another one that was explained to me was based on the observation that males not involved in care for offspring are destructive competitors against females and young for resources. And so behaviors to take care of that evolve, for example bachelor herds that live on the margins or completely away from females and young.
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Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
Just a few comments for now:
Scientists who study these things say chimps and dolphins have some level of personal identity and consciousness.
Chimps can recognise themselves in mirrors
.That little nugget of info was brought to you by The Great Apes Project - those who want to give the 'great-apes' human rights.
Note: Not part of the Great Apes Project - just a strange thing I found.
___________________________________
Jayne: "Know what the chain of command is? It's the chain I beat you with till you understand who's in command."
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