Talk Story

holy Breaking Bad jeebus OMG!! (possible s5 spoilers, but not in the OP)

POSTED BY: MAL4PREZ
UPDATED: Wednesday, October 2, 2013 01:55
VIEWED: 8949
PAGE 3 of 3

MAL4PREZ

Saturday, September 28, 2013 4:28 AM

I disappeared into the cave of the school week. Emerging now to continue the conversation...

Quote:
Originally posted by FREMDFIRMA:
End Result: Around here at least, there's a massive secondary market smuggling tobacco and prescription drugs

Yeah, I am shocked every time I see what cigarettes cost these days. I smoked when I was in college, not a lot, like a pack a week tops. I couldn't have afforded it with today's prices. Which maybe supports the argument by the tobacco haters. :/ Meh. I don't like being indirectly controlled, so although I've grown to hate cigs, I hate this kind of behavioral control even more.

Like you said, not only is it evil, it's just plain stupid and doesn't work.

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As for artificially low speed limits, well that's part of criminalizing everything so that there's ALWAYS an excuse to arrest anyone at any time, make everything a crime, all of us criminals, and the powers that be don't have to listen to us any more - and there's also, obviously, the money.

Amen. Kudos.

I like your politician guy, but Pat Leahy may always be my favorite. :)

So, I've done a lot of reading blogs and talking to people and generally obsessing about BB this week. A majority of the kids I teach are hella into it. It's distressing that some are completely in love with Walt still. I find it a little alarming how people rationalize his behavior. ie...

SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER

I hate having to highlight the text for long sections, so I'm leaving this visible. Hell, if anyone reaches this deep in the thread without having watched the show, they're silly LOL!

SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER

OK, I've read comments that Jesse deserves to suffer because he killed Gale. The fact that Walt manipulated Jesse into doing that because Jesse was taking over Walt's place as head cook for Gus... not important! I'm re-watching season 4, and Walt's manipulation is so much clearer to me than first time around.

Also, many Walt folk claim Jesse deserves his fate because he went to the police. But one could also argue that the reason he is where he is now is because he didn't go to them earlier. He should have brought in the cops when Drew Sharp was killed. He choose to quit the cook but still demanded his $5 million. He made his bad kharma right there.

There's many really interesting articles breaking down the twists and turns of Walt's psyche, and I'm eating them up LOL! I can't wait for Sunday's finale, but I'm also kind of enjoying not knowing, and guessing. There are just so many possibilities for what could happen.

The Grey Matter story will finally be told, it looks like. I'm guessing that Walt won't come out of that smelling sweet. Maybe there was a love triangle that Walt didn't win, or a business decision he didn't agree with, and he left in a huff with his damaged pride. Like he's done all through the series, he blames the Grey Matter folks for that failure because they didn't do things *his* way so what choice did they leave him?

That seems his theme, and the thing about Walt I can't stand. Everything would work just fine if only everyone did exactly what he says, and he feels justified in taking any kind of revenge against people who don't obey him. In S4, Jesse was all panicked about going to Mexico with Gus. Walt's reaction was to get pissed because Jesse had dinner with Gus and didn't pull out the ricin. Walt couldn't consider that Jesse made a good decision. Good decisions don't matter. Obeying Walt is the important thing.

But then Walt goes all remorseful about fighting with Jesse, even crying (when he's doped up) and calling Walt Jr "Jesse". Goodness, I do love how this show lets characters be complex. Walt really does love Jesse, he just loves his power trip more.

(Moving predictions into a different post because this is too long.)

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MAL4PREZ

Saturday, September 28, 2013 4:35 AM

My (100% WRONG!) predictions:

MORE SPOILERS!!!

Yes, gung-ho rescue is too obvious. Walt is not motivated by rescuing abyone right now, and anyway I wouldn't believe that he could kill all the nazis by himself, even with the big gun. Waiting three days for the ricin to have its effect seems impractical for the storyline.

But Todd has to have a fate of some kind, and it better not be a pleasant one...

What I really jones for is for Walt to see what's become of Jesse and have to admit that *he* made that awfulness happen. Seeing his surrogate son still alive but suffering horribly might shock him into admitting that he cares, and Jesse has always been the connection to Walt's good side. The worse things are for Jesse, the more Walt goes Heisenberg. Walt admitting he loves Jesse as a son would be like Walt admitting that he's not the evil Heisenberg.

Yes, I'm that sentimental.

So maybe Walt sees what's happened to Jesse and we get another huggy moment. This is where I see Jesse being damaged up enough to accept the affection, bask in it, but then kill Walt.

I've changed my mind that I don't think Jesse'd go criminal in the end. Most likely he'd swallow the ricin and then go to the cops to try to clean his soul a bit before dying. I hope I'm wrong. I hope the writers find a way to give him a life.

I don't see Walt going after either the insurance companies or DEA. I don't think he blames them at all, though he should. His beef is with Grey Matter and the nazis who killed Hank and took his money.

He might have heard about the blue being back on the market and figured that Jesse is alive, but his reaction to the Charlie Rose show seemed all focused on Grey Matter.

Yes, I am rambling about this show and I will probably continue all weekend. And for weeks after LOL! And I'm not trying to convince you of anything, just needing to vent about my obsession. :)

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The French Revolution would have never happened if Marie Antoinette had just given every peasant an iPhone.

MAL4PREZ

Saturday, September 28, 2013 5:43 AM

Really good article about two episodes back. Assessment still holds, even with all that's happened in the two episodes since.

http://www.wired.com/underwire/2013/09/breaking-bad-recap-rabid-dog/

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The French Revolution would have never happened if Marie Antoinette had just given every peasant an iPhone.

FREMDFIRMA

Tuesday, October 1, 2013 6:26 AM

Well, that's that.
No real surprises there - I think we all knew the destination of that train from the moment it pulled out of the station, yep.

Way it was put together reminded me of Agent Smiths line in The Matrix.

Quote:
Hear that mister anderson ? THAT, is the sound of inevitability.

Which is what it was, only question was when and how.

I've heard some mention of redemption, but that's just crap, there's no redemption here cause this wasn't for even a moment ABOUT redemption, this is about what WALTER wanted, frankly that's always what this has been about cause that's who he was, how he is, only magnified to degrees not possible in civilized life by desperate circumstances.

Even when he finally owns up to it, even *that* is a manipulation, but a less mean spirited one in order to give his family some closure.

And in the end, Walter *gets* what he wanted, although depending on what you believe he might very well have a "warm" welcome waiting for him on the other side of the veil, sure - damn straight he earned it.

All that said, it does rook me just the slightest that from a certain perspective the health care system and the "War on (some) Drugs" are in their own way every bit as villainous and vile as any of the protagonists and antagonists involved here, and in one way or another actually enabled or inspired some of them, something I feel is glossed over, and Big Pharmas playgames never even mentioned - how is jacking kids on Ritalin "good" and kids jacking themselves on Meth "evil", and is the "War on (some) Drugs" really about eliminating competition ?
That and enriching/corrupting our so-called-protectors into vulture-grade looters via asset forfeiture, yadda yadda.

Oh, and Grey Matter - still comes across to me that that Elliot and Gretchen are not as innocent as they might seem, something about them always came across a bit "off" to me, and I think they might have been playing Walt via Gretchen sleeping with him and he figured out what was going on and left in a huff... which allowed them to establish legal custody of his work thus cutting him off from any royalties and such for it - while used in the most ridiculous and bizarre fashions these days, that is one reason patent and trademark laws exist, so I don't think they're wholly innocents there, just opportunists.

-F

MAL4PREZ

Tuesday, October 1, 2013 8:41 AM

Quote:
Hear that mister anderson ? THAT, is the sound of inevitability.

LOL! Brilliant line, and perfectly fitting.

I'm mostly surprised that I wasn't surprised. You never know if the writers will try to pull some huge crazy stunt, but this episode just made sense and provided much needed closure.

**** SPOILER ****

I was relieved right away when Walt didn't go after the Grey Matter couple, as in, he didn't want revenge. Just help (though coerced, to put it mildly). First, it showed that he was out to mend what fences he could, and wasn't purely motivated by power trip and rage. Thank goodness there was going to be balm on the many wounds this show has given me, was my reaction!

Second, I was somewhat relieved not to get the whole Grey Matter backstory. I've been curious and all, but also distressed at how many precious minutes that would eat up. I'd rather get as much as I can about the main characters.

However, regarding balm, I read somewhere that Gilligan thinks (I love this: he *thinks* this about the character he writes but he's not completely sure and he's willing for viewers to see it differently, as if this character really does have his own independent existence. Which is how I felt when I was writing.) Anyhow, Gilligan suspects that Walt intended to kill Jesse along with the Nazis. He changed his mind when he saw what bad shape Jesse was in.

I didn't see that angle watching the show the first time, because I was convinced that Walt was all olive branch. But it makes sense. And makes the scene even more heart-wrenching.

I agree about redemption. There is none for Walt. But there was honestly, finally. Admitting to Skyler that he did it for himself... Funny, one of my students who has been firmly and somewhat disturbingly on Team Walt, came into school this morning saying that Walt died too easy. I couldn't believe it! I think it affected her to see him acknowledge that he had indeed gone to the Dark Side.

War on drugs - yes bullshit. But rather than dwell on that, I'll get back to my infatuation with Jesse.

I really want to know what his odds are. The material facts say he's screwed: no money, in poor health, fucked up in the head for sure, serious emotional problems, no one he can turn to, and oh yeah his fingerprints all over a meth lab full of dead nazis. What is he going to do?

But then he's actually happy to be alive, which I think not many people would be after all that happened. The fight never went out of him. So maybe he'll go to Alaska and build a new life, making zebra wood inlay boxes and teaching kids to not do drugs. That's my Jesse fanfic. :)

Quote:
Originally posted by FREMDFIRMA:
Oh, and Grey Matter - still comes across to me that that Elliot and Gretchen are not as innocent as they might seem,

Hmm. I must ponder that. Need to watch the scene again. I'm still too blown by the Skyler/Walt and Jesse/Walt scenes to focus on much else.

Sooo looking forward to buying the series DVD set and all the extras... This show is worth it.

So now when does The Walking Dead come back? ;)

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The French Revolution would have never happened if Marie Antoinette had just given every peasant an iPhone.

TWO

Tuesday, October 1, 2013 9:38 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by FREMDFIRMA:

Well, that's that.
No real surprises there - I think we all knew the destination of that train from the moment it pulled out of the station, yep.

It was not inevitable. In retirement, Walter White was doing what the real Whitey Bulger did. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whitey_Bulger But Walter didn't retire to a Santa Monica apartment, like Bulger did for 17 years. TV can't wait 17 years, so winter in a New Hampshire cabin made Walter bored and lonesome. He needed an end, as Breaking Bad did, and called the police from a barroom.

And then Walter saw Grey Matter's Elliot and Gretchen on the barroom TV. TV gave him a conveniently new purpose at the last minute before the police arrived.

After the final episode of Breaking Bad, Whitey Bulger is probably wishing he died doing what he was best at, murder, like the fictional Walter White.

Fandom
http://xkcd.com/367/

"Ron Paul wants to put the New Republic back on the Corusca gem standard."

FREMDFIRMA

Tuesday, October 1, 2013 2:38 PM

I actually got a laugh out of how Gretchen and Elliot have NO IDEA Walt is even there till he pulls up a chair, that's straight from my bag of tricks... one of our residents is a wee bit irritated at me cause I almost made him wet himself, not MY fault he wasn't paying attention and didn't see me till I walked right past his chair while he was out having a late night smoke.

If Jesse has an ounce of sense he'll go running straight to this guy here.
http://breakingbad.wikia.com/wiki/Group_Leader
I think he actually might, and I wouldn't be none too worried about the fingerprints cause he's got the scars and the damage to prove his participation was involuntary, plus what they did to Andrea - I think the DEA would be more than happy to pin all else on Walt just to close the case as it has been a thorn in their side the whole time.

I too think Walt went in there with the idea of a mercy kill in mind and just couldn't, cause Jesse is like a second son to him no matter how screwed in the head he was, and I think he was also actually gratified at Jesse finally rejecting him to become his own person when he tossed away the pistol and refused to kill him.

I found it kind of tragic but triumphant that Walter meets his "win condition", even at the cost of his own life... were it not for his ego, pride and grudge holding, he might have been able to do so peacefully, but even dealt a crummy hand by fate and his own "issues", he still made bank when the chips came down.

Quote:
So now when does The Walking Dead come back?

Oh bite thy tongue!

Three/Four episodes into it and I was rooting for the ZOMBIES - seriously, I have never seen a more determinedly, passionately, STUPID bunch of dumbass deserving of horrible fate morons outside the GOP in my entire LIFE - I literally couldn't stomach watching it, and it was kinda the last straw in cancelling my netflix subscription (along with 5000 C/D list fodder movies junking up the list and drowning out maybe 9 good ones, if even that many).

Honestly I couldn't find even a single character I didn't want to meet a horrific and painful end, except maybe poor little Sophia, and welll....
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/EightDeadlyWords

If there ever was a zombie apocalypse, and these folks showed up at the edge of my secured zone, I'd mow them down in self-defense against their rampant, overbearing, inexcusable stupidity and incompetence, lest they destroy all me and mine have by leading the horde right to us out of pure flaming idiocy - I *HATE* those people, all of em.

-F

SECOND

Wednesday, October 2, 2013 1:55 AM

Walter White's Dream

The New Yorker’s Emily Nussbaum explains the finale :

“ … halfway through, at around the time that Walt was gazing at Walt, Jr., I became fixated on the idea that what we were watching must be a dying fantasy on the part of Walter White, not something that was actually happening—at least not in the “real world” of the previous seasons.

… I mean, wouldn’t this finale have made far more sense had the episode ended on a shot of Walter White dead, frozen to death, behind the wheel of a car he couldn’t start? Certainly, everything that came after that moment possessed an eerie, magical feeling—from the instant that key fell from the car’s sun visor, inside a car that was snowed in. Walt hit the window, the snow fell off, and we were off to the races. Even within this stylized series, there was a feeling of unreality —- and a strikingly different tone from the episode that preceded this one …

… [But] if this episode in fact took place in reality, it was troubling, and yes, disappointing, if only because the story ended by confirming Walt’s most grandiose notions: that he is, in fact, all-powerful, the smartest guy in the room, the one who knocks. Anyone other than Walt becomes a mere reflection of this journey to redemption. … It’s not that Walt needed to suffer, necessarily, for the show’s finale to be challenging, or original, or meaningful: but Walt succeeded with so little true friction —- maintaining his legend, reconciling with family, avenging Hank, freeing Jesse, all genuine evil off-loaded onto other, badder bad guys -— that it felt quite unlike the destabilizing series that I’d been watching for years. If, instead, we were watching Walt’s compensatory fantasy, it was a fascinating glimpse into the man’s mind -— akin to the one in the movie “Mulholland Drive,” a poignant, tragic attempt to fix a life that is unfixable.” - www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/culture/2013/09/breaking-bad-finale-rev
iewed.html

Read, as they say, the whole thing, which fleshes out the case for the strange, un-”Breaking Bad”-ness of the show’s final hour: The ridiculously-smooth unfolding of Walt’s final plan, the surprising predictability (in this most unpredictable of shows) of just about everything that happened, and the weird invisibility of Albuquerque’s Most Wanted Man throughout. Given the sweep of the show, it was not a sequence of events that came close to vindicating Walt: After the terrible unfolding of the last season, especially, no mere tying-up of unfinished business could accomplish that. But it was a sequence that could have been scripted by Walt, given how neatly it fit with his own long-running conception of himself — as a genius among lesser men, a master of his fate, and a man who takes care of his family even when his family doesn’t appreciate or understand it.

My Sunday column, which explored the moral coherence and primal appeal of the Team Walt worldview, also argued that the show itself does not actually share that worldview, and that as a work of art “Breaking Bad” ultimately judges its protagonist from within the more universalist/Christian moral framework that he himself rejects. I stand by that view, but after the finale I think the creators may have nursed a little more sympathy for Team Walt’s perspective than I previously believed. It was almost as if, having ruthlessly deconstructed his vision of himself across the final season’s course, they decided to give him (and his admirers) a kind of consolation prize — a last ride in which his plans would all work out, his genius would carry all before it, and his self-image would actually be vindicated by the unfolding of events. And it’s hard not to agree with Slate’s Willa Paskin that this kind of ending necessarily “dampens the moral vision of the show,” and weakens the integrity of its tragic arc.

So I stand with [The New Yorker's] Nussbaum in preferring to interpret the finale’s action as an “Owl Creek Bridge”-style dying dream … though I also think that interpretation is less poignant than hyper-tragic