So, what the heck is libertarianism?
POSTED BY: SIGNYM
UPDATED: Saturday, September 7, 2024 21:57
VIEWED: 19122
PAGE 2 of 21
Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Well, okay... one man's explanation. Thanks PN!
Continued...
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So hey, c'mon guys, this isn't a trick question! I went back thru a bunch of old threads just to see if anyone had posted anything aside from read this person's books (really?) and I hadn't found anything. Maybe I missed it. If so, can you provide a link? Maybe it was never posted. If so, can you post YOUR insight into what libertarianism means to you? I may ask detailed questions, but the intent is not to derail, just to understand.
So, how about it?
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E-T-A: I don't claim to be one, so I hope that doesn't disqualify me, but here's a general shot at it.
The classic definition is something along the lines of allowing each individual maximum personal freedom to do whatever he wants, in his own way, with minimum interference from anybody else, especially government.
Most definitions include something about restricting that freedom at the point where it harms another.
Another common policy is private property and privacy rights-- the freedom to do whatever you want on your own property, in your own home, without restriction or regulation by the government.
A third common policy is lassaize faire (I don't think I spelled that right.) economics- the government has no right to interfere in any economic transaction or relationship I choose to make.
Another policy is that no person has any mandatory duty to any other, but may choose to undertake such duty on his own for any personal reason. An obvious implication of this one it that a person has no duty to help another who is in difficulty, and may choose not to.
Those are the most common major points. Individual libertarians would accept or reject them to greater or lesser degrees.
An obvious and common interpretation of those points:
Government has no right to say how I treat workers on my private property- It's mine, I can do what I want. Government has no right to interfere between me and and any employee I hire- we both freely entered into whatever wage or working condition agreement we have, and if the workers don't like it, they are free to leave and go work somewhere else.
And another- government has no right to tax me to use my money to assist any other person or organization. No welfare, no unemployment, no social security, no disability pensions. No disaster relief. No veteran's benefits, except by contract between the government and the veteran. No assistance with educational costs, public education or college. I CAN CHOOSE to pay for those, individually, as or if I choose.
That's most of it.
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Quote:Well stated. These themes vary among self-styled libertarians. There are "anarcho-capitalists" (the Kochs and their puppets), "libertarian socialists" (Chomsky), and other subsets among anarchist and libertarian schools of thought.
Originally posted by NewOldBrownCoat:
The classic definition is something along the lines of allowing each individual maximum personal freedom to do whatever he wants, in his own way, with minimum interference from anybody else, especially government.
Most definitions include something about restricting that freedom at the point where it harms another.
Another common policy is private property and privacy rights-- the freedom to do whatever you want on your own property, in your own home, without restriction or regulation by the government.
A third common policy is lassaize faire (I don't think I spelled that right.) economics- the government has no right to interfere in any economic transaction or relationship I choose to make.
Another policy is that no person has any mandatory duty to any other, but may choose to undertake such duty on his own for any personal reason. An obvious implication of this one it that a person has no duty to help another who is in difficulty, and may choose not to.
Those are the most common major points. Individual libertarians would accept or reject them to greater or lesser degrees.
An obvious and common interpretation of those points:
Government has no right to say how I treat workers on my private property- It's mine, I can do what I want. Government has no right to interfere between me and and any employee I hire- we both freely entered into whatever wage or working condition agreement we have, and if the workers don't like it, they are free to leave and go work somewhere else.
Your last paragraph is what the "an-caps" argue for. The opposite is what Chomsky argues for; regular folks standing up to power and forcing change.
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Quote:You're aware, of course, that the 2nd didn't happen until the war was won...
Originally posted by PIRATENEWS:Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Well, okay... one man's explanation. Thanks PN!
Continued...
Even then, not everyone could have a gun. Slaves, in particular.
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Quote:
Originally posted by reaverfan:
Well stated. These themes vary among self-styled libertarians. There are "anarcho-capitalists" (the Kochs and their puppets), "libertarian socialists" (Chomsky), and other subsets among anarchist and libertarian schools of thought.
Your last paragraph is what the "an-caps" argue for. The opposite is what Chomsky argues for; regular folks standing up to power and forcing change.
I added another paragraph up there , BTW.
The "an-cap" folks are the ones I have most often encountered. That seems to be the argument libertarians are the most interested in.
I remember "right-wingers/ libertarians" dismissing Chomsky as a "commie."
And isn't folks organizing to "stand up to power and force change" the exact kind of outside interference libertarians would say is improper? Two examples: isn't it OK for Alex Rodriguez to stand up and demand a $125 Million contract from the Yankees for 10 years service, as an individual talent, but not for 500 workers to organize and strike of a 10 cent an hour raise for 3 years, and safer working conditions, as a group?
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I wasn't gonna post it, in case this had the potential for actual discussion, but since, well, anyways...
Ahem.
-Frem
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Quote:
Originally posted by PIRATENEWS:Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Well, okay... one man's explanation. Thanks PN!
Continued...
Meh, whatever I think of the Monarchy, our system of government is still democratic and one of the most stable forms of government in history.
So it aint actually oppression.
(Can't believe I'm replying to King Troll)
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Quote:
Originally posted by FREMDFIRMA:
I wasn't gonna post it, in case this had the potential for actual discussion, but since, well, anyways...
Ahem.
-Frem
I like it, Frem. I think that's what's implied in my posts. That's certainly MY POV.
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Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:Quote:You have? Where?
Hmm. I've stated my views on the matter already
I don't read every thread here, believe it or not, so it may have gotten past me. Can you either provide a link, or copy-and-paste, or just re-state your explanation of libertarianism?
Summed up nicely here...
* Simply put, I believe in freedom. I believe the Constitution should be amended with a clause which states that neither the federal nor any state government shall make any activity that does not violate, through force or fraud, a persons right to life, liberty or property, a crime.
Unless the topic is gay marriage.
Excuse me while I soak in all these sweet, sweet conservative tears.
"We will never have the elite, smart people on our side." -- Rick "Frothy" Santorum
"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"
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