It IS About Race: Study Finds Significant Racial Bias In ‘Stand Your Ground’ Laws

POSTED BY: Niki2
UPDATED: Friday, July 19, 2013 21:28
VIEWED: 6542
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M52NICKERSON

Thursday, July 18, 2013 2:07 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Martin probably came on with the tough guy "Why you followin' me mutha***er?" prompting Zim to reflexively reach towards his gun making it look like a move of some kind to Martin who didn't wait for a punch or wrestling move to come his way- he attacked.

So, you can simplify it all you want, but if you really DO want to simplify it for real, Zimmerman at home drinking his beer & not out looking to be everyone's hero would have been better for all concerned.

It could have happened that way, no one knows.

Your argument about Zimmerman being at home works for Martin as well. I can fault Zimmerman for wanting to help and try and prevent his neighbors from being robbed. I think he went about it in the wrong way, but I think he intentions were good. In the end I think both Zimmerman and Martin could have done things differently and avoided the confrontation.

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.

HERO

Thursday, July 18, 2013 2:10 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Trayvon didn't " deserve " to die that night, but George didn't deserve a broken nose and having his head bounced off the cement either. But that's exactly what happened.

The are a number of possible scenarios for how this all got started, which is the ONLY issue.

Racist Zimmerman stalked young child Martin and killed him, probably from a bullet to the back of the head and while wearing a white hood and raping a black stripper with his lacross buddies. (Al Sharton's version)
Zimmerman followed Martin and Martin attacked Zimmerman. (The generally understood version).
Zimmerman was on his way back to car and gets attacked by Martin. (Zimmerman version).
Zimmerman followed Martin because he hates black people and Zimmerman caused the fight...somehow. (The Prosecutor's version).
Martin attacked Zimmerman because he believed he was a male rapist. (Jenteal's latest version).

Its also possible that both sides are responsible and acted with racial bias and unwarranted aggression.

There is even the possibility that both sides were acting in good faith and this was all just a tragic misunderstanding that was both cultural and systemic.

My take is that Zimmerman was doing his neighborhood watch thing and Martin didn't like it and went after him because he was white, older, and in poor shape, I don't think he intended to kill Zimmerman, but he did intend to beat him. Zimmerman was getting his ass kicked and pulled the gun to defend himself. Zimmerman was not a wanna-be cop but rather a concerned citizen. Martin was a wanna-be thug, bully and racist with some cowardess built in (he never gets into this fight if Zimmerman is built like a linebacker and looks like a ass kicker or if he knew Zimmerman had a gun).

Have you ever looked at the history of Florida's concealed carry and self defense laws? There was some very interesting criminal issues that lead to those laws being enacted. One issue was a series of murders and robberies of tourists driving out of state vehicles. The idea behind concealed carry was that a person was less likely to follow an out of state vehicle to a rest stop and murder them if there was the possibility that the victim could be armed. I note for the record that Florida crime rates have dropped dramatically since these laws were enacted.

I note for the record that I observed police ground combat training (which is basically MMA or wresting for police) and its amazing how fast things go from grapple to the other guy getting your gun out. Its not like the movies, its more like fast forwarding through a fight scene. That said, I carry a gun and I have no intention of waiting till I'm on the ground to use it. If somebody comes after me I'll retreat if I can because I don't want to kill anyone (unless I'm at home, in which case I still don't want to kill anyone, but I'm not retreating) and if I can't I'll fight with everything I have.

This 'duty to retreat' business is nonsense. Worse, its unAmerican. When did we become a country where a free man committing no crime can't stand their ground if they choose? America was founded by people standing their ground. Worse still is the opinion expressed by some of you that we have a 'duty to be beaten'. Zimmerman (or anyone) can't fight back against an unarmed person and must submit to the pain and humiliation and serious injury or death merely because the other party is unarmed...or a teenager...or because that person is a minority. This is America and I have the God given right to make my stand, armed or unarmed, and for any cause I choose. Nobody has the right to beat me in my home or on the street. Maybe you would allow yourselves to be beaten, but that is your right...stay out of mine.

H

Hero...must be right on all of this. ALL of the rest of us are wrong. Chrisisall, 2012

JONGSSTRAW

Thursday, July 18, 2013 2:52 PM

A wannabe cop met up with a wannabe thug gangsta. The rest is history. Zimmerman was acquitted by a jury after a trial, but he's certainly not "free" in any normal sense. He's more of a hated and marked person than either OJ or Casey Anthony. That's not right, but it is what it is.

MAGONSDAUGHTER

Thursday, July 18, 2013 8:57 PM

Why Hero, you're such a .......hero

HERO

Thursday, July 18, 2013 10:50 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:
Why Hero, you're such a .......hero

I don't know about that but the cultural implications of 'duty to retreat' vs 'stand your ground' go far beyond this isolated incident. In many ways the 'duty to retreat' mentality is a big part of everything that is wrong with this country.

I'm sure that there are those who see the opposite as the case and that 'standing your ground' is what's wrong. Those people are simply not relevant...because they will surrender or retreat if pressed to defend...their opinion.

They say that God made man but Sam Colt made men equal. That is a simple recognition that no man is powerless, no man must surrender to a beating, no man must aquiess to the terror of bullies, tyrants, or thugs be they King or common. The world is full of places where men must bow without choice or hope. America has always been a place to stand, win or lose.

Duty to retreat? Tell that to Washington, Lincoln. Lawrence Chamberlain. Travis, Frederick Myers. George Patton would slap you silly for suggesting it. Wyatt Earp, Elliot Ness. Countless names. A duty to retreat would never have set foot onto the moon or invented the IPhone. Hundreds refused to answer the call of duty to retreat on 9/11 and instead stormed burning towers to save lives just as their fathers stormed burning beaches to liberate nations. An old woman refused to retreat to the back of the bus and defied the indifferent prejudice of a nation, her people refused to run from dogs and firehoses and the beating of injustice upon their flesh. "Here we stand" has been the true motto of this nation and we should not abandon it to our passion or prejudice.

You want to make a stand for Trayvon, go make it, God bless you, but remember, after all the hype, all the tears, all wish it was, Trayvon never stood for anything but himself. Its not wonder he's so attractive to the Sharptons and Jacksons out there.

H

Hero...must be right on all of this. ALL of the rest of us are wrong. Chrisisall, 2012

MAGONSDAUGHTER

Friday, July 19, 2013 4:35 AM

hero. you're patriotic undies are showing again. It doesn't make my beating heart race to hear your hyperbole, because that's why it comes across as.

To retreat or stay and defend. Any military strategist worth their salt will tell you there is a time for both, even if John Wayne films (which a lot of Americans seem to use as their reality) suggest that to do otherwise would be less than *ahem* heroic.

OONJERAH

Friday, July 19, 2013 9:28 PM

Obama: 'Trayvon Martin could have been me'
http://www.cnn.com/2013/07/19/politics/obama-zimmerman

"Trayvon Martin could have been me 35 years ago," Obama told White
House reporters in a surprise appearance at the daily briefing.

Oonjerah: With all my fears and ingrained attitudes, can I
really claim to be fair?

======================:>
A man's gotta know his own heart.

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