Dead or Alive? The thread that decides it once and for all.

POSTED BY: Wishimay
UPDATED: Tuesday, May 28, 2013 23:13
VIEWED: 22439
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TWO

Wednesday, May 22, 2013 12:45 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by pennausamike:
Wash can be returned to the Firefly story using
already established in-the-'verse-tech:

Put Wash in River's cryo-box to take him home for burial.
Along the way, Simon informs the crew
that the same medical tech that produced Tracy's hopped up internal organs
("million credit meat" in Tracy's words)
are accessible at Government research facilities.
Using a bit of improvisation and Book's ident card,
they sneak Wash in place of a politico who bumped a deserving recipient
(ala PA's governor Casey who bumped everybody down the list for his transplant).
Alliance bashing, witty dialog and some gunplay ensues.

Too complicated and scientific. There is a simpler way:

I swear by the Blood of Khan, for if Star Trek Into Darkness can resurrect a dead tribble, Firefly can resurrect Wash.

J.J. Abrams' Star Trek movie stories demonstrate there is no need for real science in science fiction. Audiences will believe anything if it is made with enough flash and flare.

The Joss Whedon script for "Serenity," where Wash lives, is
Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

TWO

Tuesday, May 28, 2013 12:24 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by cdabel:
Too complicated? They used the exact same gimmick in The Message and that didnt seem too "scientific". Tracy had a good plan, he just screwed it up.

Wash's death was faked with the same drug as Tracy's death works for me. The Reavers soaked the wood spear that "killed" Wash in that drug. It is a quick & easy way to get Firefly storytelling going again, but . . . Khan's magic blood reviving dead Kirk in Star Trek Into Darkness implicitly sends Star Trek to some very strange storytelling -- the Federation imprisons 73 supermen and regularly sucks their blood to revive the dead. That is so creepy and that's where the off-screen story goes unless the writers pretend it never happened by forgetting Khan.

Or the writers can make the situation merely bad: Khan and his 72 super-buddies hyper-sleep in Guantanamo forever after because nobody in Star Fleet wants to be responsible for dealing with them.

Or the writers can make it worse: Enterprise needs to have a handy supply of fresh Khan's Magic Blood just in case Kirk gets killed, again. How evil would it be if sickbay keeps Khan around for emergency transfusions?

Let us never think again about the Khan-to-Kirk blood transfusion. It never happened because the implications for future storytelling are too nasty. I don't want Star Trek idealism to become horror.

The Joss Whedon script for "Serenity," where Wash lives, is
Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

BYTEMITE

Tuesday, May 28, 2013 1:41 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by cdabel:
Too complicated? They used the exact same gimmick in The Message and that didnt seem too "scientific". Tracy had a good plan, he just screwed it up.

Tracy's "good plan" involved giving ALL of his organs to organ smugglers and thieves in exchange for incubating counterfeit organs. There was pretty much no way he wasn't going to be cut open and left for dead at the end of that sequence of events even if he hadn't tried to sell the replacement organs to someone else.

All except his brain... I'm guessing they didn't want it.

In terms of saving Wash, I'm smelling a lot of "if" coming from this plan. If he wasn't instantly killed, if technology existed that could revive him even if he was, if they could get him in cryo in time, if they found the owners of that technology who would likely be Blue Sun or the Alliance or some of the most scary and ruthless criminals out there, if they could steal the technology or organs and not end up carcasses strung up in a butcher shop.

I could more buy two's idea that the reavers coated the harpoon with byphodine to reduce any struggling from their victims while dragging them back to their ship to eat (though you'd think reavers would like the struggling), except the harpoon created a three inch hole in Wash's chest cavity. Even with 26th century technology, no one could survive that.

Now, would I LIKE them back, yeah. I don't think it's that likely that Joss has some hidden plan to bring back Wash or Book, not unless they rebooted the series/movie and retconned it.

TWO

Tuesday, May 28, 2013 2:06 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by BYTEMITE:

I could more buy two's idea that the reavers coated the harpoon with byphodine to reduce any struggling from their victims while dragging them back to their ship to eat (though you'd think reavers would like the struggling), except the harpoon created a three inch hole in Wash's chest cavity. Even with 26th century technology, no one could survive that.

. . . not unless they rebooted the series/movie and retconned it.

The Reaver spear only "appeared" to hit Wash's heart. In TV and movies there are many spots (unknown to doctors) in human anatomy where bullets and spears can go completely through but don't strike any vital organs. Recall Mal's gut and the Operative's sword. Or Jayne's leg and the Reavers' harpoon.

The Joss Whedon script for "Serenity," where Wash lives, is
Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

MOOSE

Tuesday, May 28, 2013 2:08 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by BYTEMITE:
In terms of saving Wash, I'm smelling a lot of "if" coming from this plan. If he wasn't instantly killed, if technology existed that could revive him even if he was, if they could get him in cryo in time, if they found the owners of that technology who would likely be Blue Sun or the Alliance or some of the most scary and ruthless criminals out there, if they could steal the technology or organs and not end up carcasses strung up in a butcher shop.

I could more buy two's idea that the reavers coated the harpoon with byphodine to reduce any struggling from their victims while dragging them back to their ship to eat (though you'd think reavers would like the struggling), except the harpoon created a three inch hole in Wash's chest cavity. Even with 26th century technology, no one could survive that.

Yeah, I'm going with insta-dead.

Even if he wasn't, he most certainly was by the time anyone got to him to help. And that's ignoring the fact that I'm sure the Reavers would of swarmed Serenity...do you want to think about Wash still being alive in that situation?

TWO

Tuesday, May 28, 2013 2:13 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Moose:
...do you want to think about Wash still being alive in that situation?

No! Wash was deep asleep from the drugs on the Reaver harpoon. The Reavers didn't notice him because he was not snoring.

I've seen stories of construction workers being impaled on steel reenforcing bar sticking up from concrete. They wiggle like a gaffed fish until the fire department saws through the bar and takes them down. Serenity didn't have a chainsaw so Wash stays in the chair until Mal finds one.

The Joss Whedon script for "Serenity," where Wash lives, is
Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

MOOSE

Tuesday, May 28, 2013 2:20 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by two:
No! Wash was deep asleep from the drugs on the Reaver harpoon. The Reavers didn't notice him because he was not snoring.

Alright, you got me there.

TWO

Tuesday, May 28, 2013 2:34 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Moose:
Alright, you got me there.

With enough computer power, special effects in the movies can fake a solution to any storytelling problem, no matter how difficult to solve in reality.

The Joss Whedon script for "Serenity," where Wash lives, is
Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

BYTEMITE

Tuesday, May 28, 2013 3:04 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by two:
Quote:
Originally posted by BYTEMITE:

I could more buy two's idea that the reavers coated the harpoon with byphodine to reduce any struggling from their victims while dragging them back to their ship to eat (though you'd think reavers would like the struggling), except the harpoon created a three inch hole in Wash's chest cavity. Even with 26th century technology, no one could survive that.

. . . not unless they rebooted the series/movie and retconned it.
The Reaver spear only "appeared" to hit Wash's heart. In TV and movies there are many spots (unknown to doctors) in human anatomy where bullets and spears can go completely through but don't strike any vital organs. Recall Mal's gut and the Operative's sword. Or Jayne's leg and the Reavers' harpoon.

That is... So unbelievably hollywood.

Yeah no. Pretty much the only place you can get hit and for sure not bleed out is if you take it in a nice mass of muscle, like the OUTER shoulder (not the inner like where Book was hit, and for once they showed that as a SERIOUS injury because it is!) or maybe the thigh, but that shot can be tricky because of the possible proximity to the groin, which WILL kill someone because of all the blood vessels around there. You could also probably safely shoot for the ass, which is more of an incapacitating wound.

There's a reason why when people are trained to shoot towards the center of mass, they're also trained to only shoot if they are intending to kill.

A three inch impaling wound that goes all the way through the chest will kill someone very fast. It's not a matter of missing vital organs or arteries - you don't have three inches of useless space in your torso, and three inches means you WILL hit something important. A guy surviving being impaled through the chest by a piece of rebar has a lot smaller wound, and that's already long odds as it is.

BYTEMITE

Tuesday, May 28, 2013 3:19 PM

Frankly you're all better arguing that Wash never actually GOT impaled because a wooden harpoon was launched through a window intended to take hits from micrometeorites moving at orbital velocities. That's more impossible than Wash surviving being impaled that way.

Which is why Serenity the movie was just some crazy dream that River had.

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