SkyFall - Retro James Bond
POSTED BY: SHINYGOODGUY
UPDATED: Wednesday, April 10, 2013 19:14
VIEWED: 8173
PAGE 2 of 3
Quote:
Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
Hey Mal4prez,
I just wanted to drop you a note about your review. I liked it, I liked it a lot. Gotta admit that I agreed with many of your observations, but I have to go do some family stuff right now, I will have more to say at a later date.
Thanks for posting dude.
SGG
Thank you Shiny!
I have watched the movie again, in Blue ray on my big TV. It's still visually beautiful, but kind of long. My attention wondered. And I'm rather bothered by the plot line...
Select to view spoiler:
that an agent kidnaps his boss, whisks her away, lets her get killed, and he gets a promotion for it. Does that make any kind of sense?
Still love the opening, the Adele song, the glass skyscraper, and the Bond girl. And I'm a hetero woman. I just think she's gorgeous! (It's a sad double standard that woman can say that kind of thing and men can't. Oh well.)
I've had some discussions with RL friends as to whether Craig will still be Bond in the next movie. I do like the idea above, that a new character replaces Bond, not just a new actor. But I don't think it'll happen yet. Craig still has bank in him, I think.
Do you think they can just turn away from the Bond=old storyline though?
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Oh! Something else that bugs me, though it's a bit weird... spoiler here for the first 5 minutes of the movie.
So, the opening credits make a big deal of the issue that Bond was shot. I understood it to be a big deal because he was shot by his own side. There's a betrayal theme through the whole movie, with the bad guy and all the stuff with M, so it makes sense.
But Bond was hit by a fragment of the bad guy's weird bullet too. Months later he cut out fragments of that bullet and used them to trace the bad guy. But he cut those fragments out of the same scar that he got from Eve's shot.
I don't know, it just seems weird that he got shot twice in the same exact spot, especially since they make a big deal out of the wound in the opening. It's not just the one wound - it's two. It confuses the meaning of it, the symbolism of betrayal.
I understand, I think too much. But that's what the internet is for, right? :)
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Shoot, another one I just thought of. Bond meets the gorgeous woman on her boat, and he just strips down and jumps in the shower with her. Sorry, but his last encounter with her showed that she's a woman in terror of her "bosses". This is a woman who's been taken advantage of for her looks. That was pretty damned presumptuous of him to just come onto her like that. Clearly, she is living a life where she is not allowed to say no.
My radar went off: this is movie written by men, as a fantasy for men, that every woman wants you and you can just jump in the shower with the frightening victimized woman because hey - she wants you, and if she has complications that's not your problem.
I was not a fan of that scene.
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Ok, I have to see this movie again (it's been a while since I went to see it) to answer you properly, but I will answer where I could. You really have some good observations.
I'm not sure about the "spoiler" part, I have to watch the film again, but
I really liked this movie for all the reasons you mention (gorgeously shot, etc.) But also the plot in regards to the relationship between Bond and M, also the betrayal factor, and the intro of the new boss, but, most especially, the homage to the old Bond.
Select to view spoiler:
the Bond car being blown to bits was telling
Select to view spoiler:
To me it was both paying homage to the old Bond, but introducing a transformation and a more up-to-date Bond. That's why I felt that Mendes direction was superb, bordering on brilliant. It was a delicate balancing act - old and new.
You're right, Graig still has bank. But I imagine if he decides to give up the roll for whatever reason, that it would be a good move to do the replace thing - both on an off screen. But I still say he's an excellent Bond.
As far as the old Bond storyline, I think Mendes may have given that notion a gentle nudge into the future.
SGG
Quote:
Originally posted by MAL4PREZ:Quote:
Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
Hey Mal4prez,
I just wanted to drop you a note about your review. I liked it, I liked it a lot. Gotta admit that I agreed with many of your observations, but I have to go do some family stuff right now, I will have more to say at a later date.
Thanks for posting dude.
SGG
Thank you Shiny!
I have watched the movie again, in Blue ray on my big TV. It's still visually beautiful, but kind of long. My attention wondered. And I'm rather bothered by the plot line...Select to view spoiler:
that an agent kidnaps his boss, whisks her away, lets her get killed, and he gets a promotion for it. Does that make any kind of sense?
Still love the opening, the Adele song, the glass skyscraper, and the Bond girl. And I'm a hetero woman. I just think she's gorgeous! (It's a sad double standard that woman can say that kind of thing and men can't. Oh well.)
I've had some discussions with RL friends as to whether Craig will still be Bond in the next movie. I do like the idea above, that a new character replaces Bond, not just a new actor. But I don't think it'll happen yet. Craig still has bank in him, I think.
Do you think they can just turn away from the Bond=old storyline though?
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Damn, you're good. When did all this happen?
I thought he was shot once by the baddie, ok now I have to see it again.
My guess is that he could be betrayed at any time by anyone, on his side or no. And it does make sense.
Two bullets, two fragments, but one wound. Now he uses the fragment from the baddie to trace him, he finds out that he's also shot by Eve, but only goes after the bad guy. He later forgives Eve (after some soul searching on that island). It was interesting to me that she had great chemistry with Bond from the outset and he could tell that she wasn't cut out for field duty.
My take: Sometimes your friends hurt you, unwittingly, and you forgive them.
Too simple? In terms of the plot it was supremely important, as it turns out.
Select to view spoiler:
She is later revealed as Moneypenny, Bond's great love
Select to view spoiler:
As far as thinking too much, not in this instance. I appreciate your observations and questions, it shows you're paying attention and that this movie had something to it. Mostly all good movies do.
SGG
Quote:
Originally posted by MAL4PREZ:
Oh! Something else that bugs me, though it's a bit weird... spoiler here for the first 5 minutes of the movie.
So, the opening credits make a big deal of the issue that Bond was shot. I understood it to be a big deal because he was shot by his own side. There's a betrayal theme through the whole movie, with the bad guy and all the stuff with M, so it makes sense.
But Bond was hit by a fragment of the bad guy's weird bullet too. Months later he cut out fragments of that bullet and used them to trace the bad guy. But he cut those fragments out of the same scar that he got from Eve's shot.
I don't know, it just seems weird that he got shot twice in the same exact spot, especially since they make a big deal out of the wound in the opening. It's not just the one wound - it's two. It confuses the meaning of it, the symbolism of betrayal.
I understand, I think too much. But that's what the internet is for, right? :)
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I agree with you that the shower scene is a male fantasy, that only takes place in the movies - porno and otherwise - not that I watch porno, but I've heard (ahem).....
But, unfortunately, Bond is known for his womanizing ways and the producers decided to keep with tradition in this installment. Not to defend that bit of action, but she was terrified of Silva, the Bond villain, who abused her in a seemingly non-sexual way, but from the previous 2 films it seemed to me that Bond was more a sexual animal than a womanizer. Of course, I could be wrong.
In Casino Royale, he was deeply in love with Vesper. I wasn't as impressed with Quantum of Solace, but I don't recall him taking advantage of the female lead. Do you? Anyway, I know it's thin, but there you have it. Still, I can see how that would turn you off. A hero should never take advantage of a woman, period. It's just not Kosher.
But that's me. Bond should only have sex when there is mutual attraction, which happens from time to time.
SGG
Quote:
Originally posted by MAL4PREZ:
Shoot, another one I just thought of. Bond meets the gorgeous woman on her boat, and he just strips down and jumps in the shower with her. Sorry, but his last encounter with her showed that she's a woman in terror of her "bosses". This is a woman who's been taken advantage of for her looks. That was pretty damned presumptuous of him to just come onto her like that. Clearly, she is living a life where she is not allowed to say no.
My radar went off: this is movie written by men, as a fantasy for men, that every woman wants you and you can just jump in the shower with the frightening victimized woman because hey - she wants you, and if she has complications that's not your problem.
I was not a fan of that scene.
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SPOILER ALERT: don't read this if you haven't seen the movie! (I don't know, I just find it annoying to use spoiler tags on a longish post...)
Re the bullet wound: this is my thought process the first time I saw the movie. He gets hit by a ricochet just before he jumps from the bulldozer thing to the train car (awesome shot BTW!) He's shot straight through the shoulder, as there's blood on the back of his jacket. So: On no! - he's fighting on the top of the train, already wounded!
Then Eve shoots and he falls. OK, I know he's not going to die, but in my suspended-disbelief brain there is that thought: Oh no again! Where'd she hit him, did she kill him? Then we're in the intro with all the animation of the shoulder wound. I'm thinking: wait wasn't he already hit there? So where'd she hit him?
Yeah, too many words about something so small. It's just a detail I'd have changed if I was making the movie. Except that I'd have no idea how to make a movie, especially one this good LOL!
Re the sex scene, and this is bigger deal: This is not just the usual Bond womanizing, where he has great sex that obviously the woman likes, though there is no emotional bond in it. (I really tried to find another word to avoid the pun.) There's a power dynamic here.
The one time they talked, I didn't see a sexual connection or desire so much as fear and a need for help. When he shows up naked right next to her, what she could be thinking is: if I say no, he won't help me. Or if I say no and he doesn't stop, who's going to stop him? After all, she has no idea who this guy is, except that he's very good at killing people. What are her choices at that point, when this powerful guy is right beside her, naked? At the very least, it's damned presumptuous of him.
I think it's poor writing. It's out of character. Bond will and has used sex to do his job, but never (that I recall) with this kind of power dynamic. All they needed was some moment that suggests he asks, and she accepts. If she'd seen him fully clothed and given him a come hither look before he stripped - that's ok. That's within the Bond character as I understand it.
What really bothers me is that I think the writers didn't consider this to be out of character because they didn't consider the power dynamic or even think about her point of view. To me, it's yet another little indicator of how our society does not really understand what sexual abuse is.
Yes, I've been spending a lot of time considering Steubenville.
On the lighter side: I need to review my Bond history! I didn't know Moneypenny was a romance. I can totally see it though, her and Bond did have chemistry in spades.
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While I have seen a lot of the Bond films I wouldn't call myself a fan of them. They are primarily action films and I am not a fan of pure action films. Some have had a decent story, but mostly they are just extended stunt scenes. I was bored with Casino Royale and never bothered with Quantum of Solace. Everyone has been raving about Skyfall, but I'm afraid I have to take a contrarian view of this one too.
Yes, it has great production values, great cinematography, and for the most part it is well acted. But well written? Nope.
In the scene of the inquiry into M's conduct and handling of the breach of security, they were implying that MI-6 might have outlived its usefulness. I was thinking the same could be said about Bond films.
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This coming weekend I will be going on vacation for some R&R (1 week) and I'm taking some movies with me, both watched and new, to veg out on the couch as I rub Noxzema on my sunburn. Skyfall will be one of them, then I will have a better understanding of your comments, and give you my take.
Re the bullet wound: I am not going to try and guess what the director was thinking there, it's just a bit weird. I have to be honest I don't recall the scene so well, other than the fact that Eve shot him. Perhaps it is like adding insult to injury, or part of the whole betrayal theme of the movie. I'm going to pay closer attention on the second viewing.
BTW: I agree, the opening sequence was killer.
Re Sex scene: But I think I can offer my view, as to the sex scene, based upon your observations and what little I remember of the movie, and the general approach in Bond movies.
Ok, I'm going to level with you - I'm not that big a fan about the sex scenes in Bond movies. Don't get me wrong, I love women, always have since 3rd grade (aw Karen, where are you today). But it always seemed to be tacked on for "Ain't he cool" affect - come on, we already know he's cool: a killer car and gadgets up the yingyang, duh!
But, ever since I was a kid I've marveled at his handling of baddies in the most dire of situations. Well, basically his cool under pressure. I always admired how he would use household furniture to fight off the bad guys. Anyway, for me the sex scenes were a bit of an annoyance. But I always felt that the ladies were, as you correctly stated, willing participants. I assumed, in Skyfall, that it was more of the same - more gratuitous sex and "ain't he the cool spy getting some." But I was not thrilled about this particular Bond girl. I agree with EC Gordon, it was poorly written into the story and poorly set up. I felt as though they said, "hey wait, we forgot the sex scene" and tacked it on.
One thing that I remember from Bond girls in the past, was the rather weird relationship with the bad guy. Goldfinger comes to mind. He had Pussy Galore (great Bond name). I think he too had a type of hold over her that was based on fear, a baddie's modus operandi. So yes, I can see your point. It is the driving force behind the evil genius and his lust for power. I also noticed that Bond always grappled with male evil geniuses and their lust for power, world domination - you know the usual bad guy stuff.
But, as you correctly stated, abuse comes in many forms, both intentional and unintentional (I'm referring to the extremely subtle mental abuse that comes from parental units and other child caretakers). But, to me, the character was so poorly developed that it requires a second viewing and careful scrutiny to pick up on the issues you brought up in your post. But you're right about one thing, from the female perspective, it would make for a better movie had they shown that she was a willing participant (aside from her accepting his naked advance). Maybe a come hither look (which takes all of 2 seconds) would show that she wanted him naked. Or better yet: "I'm taking a shower, you coming?"
You're right though, it's not Bond's character, especially this Bond. What I mean is the director went through great pains to humanize Bond's on-screen persona. So that scene was not in keeping with that train of thought.
Stubenville: In my day those 2 guys would have been pummeled to death by his fellow teammates. But kids today have absolutely no scruples.
BTW: It is just those details that make or break a movie, and those questions you raise are what a critic does. For me, I enjoy discussing movies and the little things that go into it. Sometimes there's something that you pick up on that I may miss (such as in that sex scene). I often do the same, look to change a detail that completes the set up in the script.
I.E.: the scene in Prometheus where the 2 scientists start playing with a snake-like
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Of the 3 Bond films, I like this one best. I agree that Skyfall's script was uneven especially some of the plot twists. But parts were brilliant.
One particular script character that was fully realized was Eve. I thought, for my money, that it was brilliantly written and set up. It culminated in a brilliant reveal toward the end, paying homage to the original. Still Mendes took a major risk in changing some of the dynamics in the Bond world.
SGG
Quote:
Originally posted by ecgordon:
While I have seen a lot of the Bond films I wouldn't call myself a fan of them. They are primarily action films and I am not a fan of pure action films. Some have had a decent story, but mostly they are just extended stunt scenes. I was bored with Casino Royale and never bothered with Quantum of Solace. Everyone has been raving about Skyfall, but I'm afraid I have to take a contrarian view of this one too.
Yes, it has great production values, great cinematography, and for the most part it is well acted. But well written? Nope.
In the scene of the inquiry into M's conduct and handling of the breach of security, they were implying that MI-6 might have outlived its usefulness. I was thinking the same could be said about Bond films.
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