Iraq: Ten years later
POSTED BY: Niki2
UPDATED: Saturday, March 23, 2013 00:10
VIEWED: 10954
PAGE 2 of 9
To clarify to those who cherry pick my post without reading the whole thing and getting my actual point (there's CTS displaying her inability to assess data again...)
My point was that the govt is more fucked up than a single individual can fix. If O had tried, in February 2009, to go after the W administration, it would set off a partisan battle at a time when the country was not just teetering on the edge but falling fast off the other side. That's the reality of politics: you have to choose your battles. It looks very pretty to ride into a hopeless battle and get cut down, but dying a noble death doesn't change anything. Not in politics.
As Frem says, the forces behind the Iraq FUBAR are far deeper and older and more ensconced than just W and Cheney. They are same forces that crashed our economy and have paid absolutely nothing for it. I'm sure that if she was pres, CTS could cut them down with a snap of her mighty fingers, but I don't think O is that all-powerful.
My biggest disappointment with O is that, when he ran in 2008, he said he wouldn't have any lobbyists. That idea quickly went away. Sadly, those damned lobbyists are the root of all evil, and they are currently the most powerful part of our govt.
Allowing the economy to finish its crash because he got engaged in a hopeless battle to take down the now powerless figureheads of the systemic disease would have been stupid. O used his political capitol to start a recovery and go after health care. I'd have much rather he went after Big Money, but he certainly had access to information I didn't. He chose his battle. I disagree, but can't claim to be right until I have all the same information he had in 2009.
I have hope that, since the national conversation is headed in a good direction, our next leader(s) will do the right thing as far as getting power away from the corps (Go Warren!) Public opinion is powerful, and the public is now aware of the power imbalance. Just look at what's happened with gay marriage and immigration, which are soon to be done issues now that the GOP sees public opinion--and votes--against them. Getting money out of politics is the next step. As long as it's still in there, no politician, no matter how smooth talking or charismatic, can win the battle.
Don't worry CTS. I don't expect to read and reply to this whole post. I've gotten used to you by now. 
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Quote:
Originally posted by BYTEMITE:
You mean bombing the shit out of a place, killing hundreds of thousands of people, creating power vacuums, and subverting economic resources for our own means doesn't automatically impose order on other countries?
Gotta be proud, Iraq was horrible when Saddam Hussein ran it, nothing like discovering that good intentions mixed with greed, fanaticism, and imperialism can lead an entire region to whole new lows. Well done everyone! Cakes all around.
Just don't you dare say YELLOW cakes! We'll have a whole new invasion to deal with!
"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero
"I was wrong" - Hero, 2012
Mitt Romney, introducing his running mate: "Join me in welcoming the next President of the United States, Paul Ryan!"
Rappy's response? "You're lying, gullible ( believing in some BS you heard on msnbc ) or hard of hearing."
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Quote:
Originally posted by canttakesky:
Where's our zero tolerance for fucking people up wholesale?
You're not American, are you?
Fucking people up wholesale is all we do. Hell, idiots in this fucking country will even celebrate the murders of schoolchildren, wholesale, and mock the victims.
"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero
"I was wrong" - Hero, 2012
Mitt Romney, introducing his running mate: "Join me in welcoming the next President of the United States, Paul Ryan!"
Rappy's response? "You're lying, gullible ( believing in some BS you heard on msnbc ) or hard of hearing."
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Rummy decided to post his thoughts - all 140 characters of them - to Twitter to celebrate the tenth anniversary of one of the country's greatest blunders.
Patton Oswalt called him on it, Lebowski style.
(Note how Rummy is trying to play the whole thing off now as a "war of liberation". Anyone with two brain cells remembers that's not the reason we went in.)
"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero
"I was wrong" - Hero, 2012
Mitt Romney, introducing his running mate: "Join me in welcoming the next President of the United States, Paul Ryan!"
Rappy's response? "You're lying, gullible ( believing in some BS you heard on msnbc ) or hard of hearing."
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Quote:LOL. I am. Naturalized immigrant--so you got a point. I didn't grow up in America. Thank God.
Originally posted by Kwicko:
You're not American, are you?
-----
Disobedience is not an issue if obedience is not the goal.
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Quote:There are different levels of criticism here. The first is directed at Obama, who not only continued the atrocities of the previous administration (but oh, it's ok with his supporters if HE does it), but actually expanded the atrocities.
Originally posted by MAL4PREZ:
OK. So you being all holier-than-thou. You go fix it, right here and now. What will you do? Tell me, what you better-than-everyone-else one single person will do.
The second is directed at his supporters, who willfully turn a blind eye to his abuses while making excuses for him like battered spouses. But he really loves us and won't do it again!
If I were Obama, I would shut down Guantanamo. I would shut down the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. I would shut down contracts with XE/Blackwater. I would pardon Bradley Manning, make our atrocities transparent, and make amends to the international community for our actions. Fuck politics and back room negotiations. This is the ONLY action befitting a Nobel Peace Prize laureate. There are certain principles that shouldn't be compromised in the least. Like excusing rape.
If I were an Obama supporter, I would rally my fellow Democrats to protest the president UNTIL he takes such actions. I would not tolerate a President that I voted for to behave in this way.
As I am neither, I will protest Obama in a way that will not get me put on some watch list. Mostly it involves withdrawing from the larger system of corporate evil in our society.
-----
Disobedience is not an issue if obedience is not the goal.
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Quote:
Originally posted by canttakesky:Quote:LOL. I am. Naturalized immigrant--so you got a point. I didn't grow up in America. Thank God.
Originally posted by Kwicko:
You're not American, are you?
It wasn't a criticism of you, trust me; it was an observation. America's slogan should be "We Can Fuck It Up For You Wholesale!"
"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero
"I was wrong" - Hero, 2012
Mitt Romney, introducing his running mate: "Join me in welcoming the next President of the United States, Paul Ryan!"
Rappy's response? "You're lying, gullible ( believing in some BS you heard on msnbc ) or hard of hearing."
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Quote:
Originally posted by canttakesky:Quote:There are different levels of criticism here. The first is directed at Obama, who not only continued the atrocities of the previous administration (but oh, it's ok with his supporters if HE does it), but actually expanded the atrocities.
Originally posted by MAL4PREZ:
OK. So you being all holier-than-thou. You go fix it, right here and now. What will you do? Tell me, what you better-than-everyone-else one single person will do.
The second is directed at his supporters, who willfully turn a blind eye to his abuses while making excuses for him like battered spouses. But he really loves us and won't do it again!
If I were Obama, I would shut down Guantanamo. I would shut down the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. I would shut down contracts with XE/Blackwater. I would pardon Bradley Manning, make our atrocities transparent, and make amends to the international community for our actions. Fuck politics and back room negotiations. This is the ONLY action befitting a Nobel Peace Prize laureate. There are certain principles that shouldn't be compromised in the least. Like excusing rape.
If I were an Obama supporter, I would rally my fellow Democrats to protest the president UNTIL he takes such actions. I would not tolerate a President that I voted for to behave in this way.
As I am neither, I will protest Obama in a way that will not get me put on some watch list. Mostly it involves withdrawing from the larger system of corporate evil in our society.
-----
Disobedience is not an issue if obedience is not the goal.
All valid points.
"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero
"I was wrong" - Hero, 2012
Mitt Romney, introducing his running mate: "Join me in welcoming the next President of the United States, Paul Ryan!"
Rappy's response? "You're lying, gullible ( believing in some BS you heard on msnbc ) or hard of hearing."
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Quote:
Originally posted by canttakesky:Quote:There are different levels of criticism here. The first is directed at Obama, who not only continued the atrocities of the previous administration (but oh, it's ok with his supporters if HE does it), but actually expanded the atrocities.
Originally posted by MAL4PREZ:
OK. So you being all holier-than-thou. You go fix it, right here and now. What will you do? Tell me, what you better-than-everyone-else one single person will do.
The second is directed at his supporters, who willfully turn a blind eye to his abuses while making excuses for him like battered spouses. But he really loves us and won't do it again!
If I were Obama, I would shut down Guantanamo. I would shut down the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. I would shut down contracts with XE/Blackwater. I would pardon Bradley Manning, make our atrocities transparent, and make amends to the international community for our actions. Fuck politics and back room negotiations. This is the ONLY action befitting a Nobel Peace Prize laureate. There are certain principles that shouldn't be compromised in the least. Like excusing rape.
If I were an Obama supporter, I would rally my fellow Democrats to protest the president UNTIL he takes such actions. I would not tolerate a President that I voted for to behave in this way.
As I am neither, I will protest Obama in a way that will not get me put on some watch list. Mostly it involves withdrawing from the larger system of corporate evil in our society.
...My atheist anarchist gods. I would VOTE for you.
I should take some medicine or something and lay down.
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Quote:LOL. Of course. If you would vote for me, you need to take your meds. ;)
Originally posted by BYTEMITE:
... I would VOTE for you.
I should take some medicine ...
You would do the same if you were Obama. And I'd vote for YOU.
-----
Disobedience is not an issue if obedience is not the goal.
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