Gender and Violence and Blame
POSTED BY: Magonsdaughter
UPDATED: Tuesday, August 25, 2026 20:14
VIEWED: 35151
PAGE 29 of 31
Note that no one is even trying to change my mind about TV, because everyone knows that I ain't changin my mind.
Signe, I'm glad you got some time off work and had a relaxing time. But I'm sorry you didn't get to go somewhere, maybe you went to the ocean or something for a few days in there somewhere? I hope so.
"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya
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FREM: ALL societies have an "or else" in them. You sat around while others sowed, reaped and thrashed? You don't get to eat. You broke what it took many people weeks to build or make? You have to go away. The Constitutional Amendments? Those are rules. Treat others as you wish to be treated? The Golden Rule. Even your beloved "self defense" supports certain rules. The idea of there being a society which has no rules and no "or else" is ludicrous. Rather than talk about things which could not exist and SHOULD not exist, let's talk about which rules and which "or else's" are likely to create the kind of society we want.
On the media: My original proposal (which I will reiterate for roughly the 7th time) was not to ban content, but to simply eliminate one kind of transmission and to ensure that the remaining form(s) were free. The kind of transmission I would ban is the one-way kind. As a rough outline, I would suggest that everyone who has a portal pays a fee (for repairs, expansions and upgrades) that upload and download speeds be symmetric, that the physical backbone be replicated for truly un-interruptable service, and that all transmitted content not be protected by copyright. Part of the problem with our current setup is that we're still operating on the backbone of the old AT&T monopoly... because whatever service provider your think you have, if you have transmission problems the finger will eventually be pointed back to AT&T or Verizon, or Time Warner. (And if you go back far enough, you'll STILL wind up at AT&T or Verizon servers)
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FREM: ALL societies have an "or else" in them. You sat around while others sowed, reaped and thrashed? You don't get to eat. You broke what it took many people weeks to build or make? You have to go away. The idea of there being a society which has no "or else" is ludicrous. The Constitutional Amendments? Those are rules. Even your beloved "self defense" is based on rules.
Waittaminute, that sounds like the words of someone who's ready to abandon society to go off and live in the woods on their own. Is it true, Sig? Have you become one of us?
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NO, because (unlike you) I actually want to live in a society. I also recognize that rules are an important part of society. I'm willing to live with rules, as long as they promote the kind of society that I want.
BYTE, you have no idea what it's like to live without society. I don't mean "without company" I mean "Without society"... all the benefits of society... the food, utilities, the web... If you didn't have large groups of people playing by "the rules" and working cooperatively all of that would be gone. poof!
Yanno, in every population there are some who really really want to be by themselves. They're five standard deviations on from the norm... Hey. it's a dirty job but someone has to do it. Back in the old days they would be "mountain men" (not too many little women filling that role... too physically demanding, I guess) or "hermits" or - if they were wealthy enough' "recluses". Societies with sufficient surplus can tolerate deviations; and in THIS society it is even more possible to participate at arms-length. But society cannot tolerate EVERYONE behaving that way because certain forms of production are necessarily large-scale, requiring many people's immediate input. Also, at this point we have created enough problems for ourselves that... should we ever get to deciding to do something about them in realistic way, we will need large groups of people acting together. Not only that, most people don't WANT to be hermits. So the structures that you are likely to suggest based on your personal preference (again, several standard deviations from the norm) are likely to be impractical in the long run.
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Riona- at this point, nothing relaxes me more than straightening out the hoarders nest that has become my house and my life!
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Um, sure I do. I go camping, multi-nights, don't really bother with a tent or sleeping bag. I hike up into and around the mountains. Sometimes it's cold, but I don't really mind the cold, I can pretty easily sleep in ten degree weather on the frozen ground. I know where to find berries and what mushrooms are edible, I'm learning how to make my own clothes out of natural materials, and frankly, if it doesn't work out, I can't think of a better way to go than to die out there, unknown, unmourned, but part of something that's actually real.
I guess I'd have to actually start eating meat though if I did that full time. Maybe fish. Lotsa fish.
The best possible non-vagrant future I can imagine for myself is to play in the system just a little longer, enough to secure some land for myself since for some reason this society thinks that you can "own" land. And then I'd build a shelter from society. Other fugitives could live there too, I don't really care too much.
Society is bogus though. It's not that I like the internet, I'm addicted to it - eats up all useful time. If I don't care about money, and I don't care about dying, and I don't care about luxuries or even basic comforts or my health, then society doesn't really mean anything to me. None of the problems people have, none of the differences people see between people, none of this is actually matters. People have convinced themselves they can trade an electrical impulse or wood pulp or stones from the earth among each other, and if you have a whole bunch of stones or wood pulp or electrical impulses you can buy weapons (instead of making your own?) and boss people around. That's society. Forgive me for thinking it's pretty much a massive joke on everyone.
I don't really care what society people chose, and I don't care what happens to that society, or what that society does, or having any say whatsoever in that society. I might care about the people within that society and what happens to them, but not enough to be part of it.
I'd ask you, like I asked Magons, not to tell me what I can think or feel. I never suggested my isolation as an option for society or for anyone but myself. I asked if you are beginning to think the same - you don't. Good for you.
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Originally posted by BYTEMITE:
I'd ask you, like I asked Magons, not to tell me what I can think or feel. I never suggested my isolation as an option for society or for anyone but myself. I asked if you are beginning to think the same - you don't. Good for you.
Excuse me, I never told you what to think or feel.
Sounds like you are a bit of a transendentalist, Byte. Loved On Walden Pond. Another was "My side of the mountain". Did you ever read it. Wonderful. Read it to my lad a few years ago, and we both wanted to go off and live in a tree hollow somewhere. Had an ancestor who did that. World authority on lyre birds, supposedly.
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Excuse me, I never told you what to think or feel.
It was in the implying that you don't think I can live outside society because I wouldn't like it. I can and do. But perhaps that was something you just didn't know about me.
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Sounds like you are a bit of a transendentalist, Byte.
I'm technically more of a cynic, but I'm actually not one for philosophers or their schools. They think they got things all figured out, but I don't think any of them do, and I've never been into the idea that happiness/virtue/meaning of life/whatever can be found by embracing someone else's ideas or methods. The only part of philosophy I ever use is the critical thinking lessons.
I guess that makes me kind of an intractable arrogant jackass. I'm kind of okay with that though.
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er that wasn't me.
And I think Signy's point is a valid one. Individuals may be able to live on societies fringes, but that doesn't mean that society is superflous. For one person to live in their own cave is quite different to everyone doing it.
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Magons. I did say I didn't think this was for everyone.
Whether or not people need the sense of control and support and rules that society gives them is up to them as individuals. But from what I've seen, more often than not, the support and society fails people. They fall through the cracks. Comfort in numbers, even though there are constant threats to health and safety and the numbers make no difference. It all seems illusory to me.
You can collect food and blankets and first aid for hurricane survivors, and that's good. But you can't stop the hurricane from coming ashore. Society is a reassurance, but ultimately it can't really protect anyone in the first place. Society often causes harm that it was meant to prevent, while promoting those who care to game it or who make the rules favour them.
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