Guns, Guns, Guns.
POSTED BY: FREMDFIRMA
UPDATED: Monday, June 30, 2025 05:56
VIEWED: 46757
PAGE 4 of 44
Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
So Tony, aside from that inane interruption by rappy, I see that you have wisely stayed out where angels fear to tread.
Hello,
I went to see the Hobbit, and rather enjoyed myself. Then I had a professional shave. I feel spiffy.
Quote:
But you did raise an important point: despite our Founding Father's best efforts and most creative thinking, our government has gone the way of many governments. A list of enshrined rights which are presumably the foundation of our government has proven to be no guarantee of... well, anything, really. It's like GW Bush said "The Constitution is just a god damn piece of paper". (Uh, vellum actually, but whatever.)
Nothing is a guarantee of anything. To achieve something worthwhile requires a collection of variables and usually a collective effort. Governing humans certainly isn't something that requires the singular magic key to make it work.
--Anthony
Note to Self:
Raptor - woman testifying about birth control is a slut (the term applies.)
Context: http://tinyurl.com/d6ozfej
Six - Wow, isn't Niki quite the CUNT? And, yes, I spell that in all caps....
http://tinyurl.com/bdjgbpe
Wulf - Niki is a stupid fucking bitch who should hurry up and die.
Context: http://tinyurl.com/afve3r9
“The stupid neither forgive nor forget; the naive forgive and forget; the wise forgive but do not forget.” -T. S. Szasz
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Quote:
Hey Anthony,
This is precisely the problem: NO ONE HERE is ever gonna take your rights away. Not a single soul among us.
Hello,
While I do not think anyone here is going to take my rights away, (unless one of you is secretly the King of Londinum who wears a shiny hat) the collective 'you' i.e. the public may very well push to take my rights away. In pieces or in large part, depending on what is possible at the time.
When someone talks about getting abortion illegalized, I worry about the rights of women. When someone says there's no good goddamned reason to have a gun, I worry about gun rights. Whenever someone waves the banner of outlawing or curtailing a right I think people ought to have, I grow concerned and speak against it. That's pretty much half the point of Real World Event Discussions. We discuss politics and rights here all the time.
--Anthony
Note to Self:
Raptor - woman testifying about birth control is a slut (the term applies.)
Context: http://tinyurl.com/d6ozfej
Six - Wow, isn't Niki quite the CUNT? And, yes, I spell that in all caps....
http://tinyurl.com/bdjgbpe
Wulf - Niki is a stupid fucking bitch who should hurry up and die.
Context: http://tinyurl.com/afve3r9
“The stupid neither forgive nor forget; the naive forgive and forget; the wise forgive but do not forget.” -T. S. Szasz
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Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
I just wanted to repeat a more general thought that Tony joggled loose. (Sorry Tony, you get tagged with this one.)
Tony posed the thought that our government is a giant clusterf*ck despite ALL of our enumerated rights, and instead of bolstering the right to bear arms as one of those important rights, all he did for me was call into question the efficacy "rights" in general and (by extension) the efficacy of democracy. Because despite all of those rights: free speech, privacy, the vote, right to bear arms and so forth, the government is usually doing something we DON'T want done and neglecting things we DO want done, and quite often doing it secretly.
Whatever it is that we have been using for self-determination obviously hasn't worked- including the right to bear arms. They should work in theory, but in practice... not so much.
If I had a nickel for every time I heard... Religion is good, it's the priests that are the problem or Democracy is a self-correcting system, it just needs time to sort itself out or Capitalism is good in theory, but only fails when it's excessive or If we only adhered to these 'inalienable' rights around the world, we would be fine I could retire tomorrow.
Many simply want to do more of whatever it is they've been pushing... more religion, more rights, more guns, more rich people, more cooperation, more military, or what-have-you. Few seem to have stepped back and really ... and I mean really... absorbed whether those ideas are actually effective in the real world. For example, one of the things that this great list of enumerated rights may have actually done for us is allowed us to believe in the fantasy of "rights" when in fact they don't exist at all.
So guns haven't guaranteed our freedom, and I can point to a whole laundry list of theories that haven't worked. Maybe it's time for us to examine the power structure instead of our fantasies. Who is preventing us from gaining power, and what can we do about it? And please, dear god, not "more guns". Been there, done that to death. Really.
Hello,
Frem has the most likely solution to the problem and has advocated it for years. Teach children empathy and compassion, teach them that they are valuable and that their fellow humans are valuable. Protect them from harm and make sure they have everything they need to prosper.
Of course, you can't even get everyone to agree on that simple message.
--Anthony
Note to Self:
Raptor - woman testifying about birth control is a slut (the term applies.)
Context: http://tinyurl.com/d6ozfej
Six - Wow, isn't Niki quite the CUNT? And, yes, I spell that in all caps....
http://tinyurl.com/bdjgbpe
Wulf - Niki is a stupid fucking bitch who should hurry up and die.
Context: http://tinyurl.com/afve3r9
“The stupid neither forgive nor forget; the naive forgive and forget; the wise forgive but do not forget.” -T. S. Szasz
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SignyM
I was thinking the other day how very VERY large are the forces that this society bends to.
In no particular order - international corporatism that deals with things; international financials like banks, investment firms, and insurance companies that deal with money; the military, and the military's handmaiden industries; the international infortainment industry whose job is to sell us things by equally making all into a palatable package - whether it's news or entertainment; organized religions; and consortia and organizations like the NRA or the Chamber of Commerce (at all levels). I'm sure there are more.
Each of these are extremely powerful and have their own agendas, which probably don't include our welfare or freedom, or the survival of the planetary systems we depend on. Yes, they will make small insignificant gestures in that direction, but when push comes to shove - their agendas and power will be extremely clear. As they are at Fukushima, that oozing festering nuclear sore that has yet to be addressed.
Against that we have - the vote.
I think it could be extremely effective. It IS extremely effective in select cases. But the society has to be informed and reasonable, unlike the US which is relentlessly propagandized, and stupefied with drivel.
Eh, I have the idea that overall, no amount of guns will ensure freedom. With or without guns, people get just about as much freedom as they want. We just don't want freedom.
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Quote:Widen your scope of thought Tony. 60% of the people wanted single payer. If you ask people about the fiscal cliff, the majority will tell you that they want to INCREASE spending on Medicare and Social Security (by a small %) and decrease military spending by quite a bit. A lot of people actually agree with Frem's message, but those people are countervailed by a numerically negligible but unimaginably influential group who has set up a system of kill or be killed, work or die, and buy more shit because you want to be young, popular and desirable forever. And that message is pushed on us from every angle: from the school that has honed it's curriculum to be "more efficient" in today's "more competitive" economy, to the most brain-dead "reality" TV show and beer commercial.
Frem has the most likely solution to the problem and has advocated it for years. Teach children empathy and compassion, teach them that they are valuable and that their fellow humans are valuable. Protect them from harm and make sure they have everything they need to prosper.
Of course, you can't even get everyone to agree on that simple message.
NOBODY IN POWER wants anyone to hear Frem's message. THEY have a vested interest in keeping things exactly the way they are: totally fucked up for everyone EXCEPT THEM. THEY ALSO WANT YOU TO FOCUS ON GUN OWNERSHIP. Don't you think they're laughing all the way to the bank at that totally feckless gesture???
Let's focus on the real problems, and also, let's not conflate them.
We have at least three problems being discussed in this thread:
(1) How do we reduce the threat of people using guns to engage in horribly efficient killing sprees?
(2) How do we reduce the general level of violence in our society?
(3) How do we take back the power of self-determination?
The solutions are not necessarily mutually exclusive.
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Quote:
Originally posted by HKCavalier:
OT: am I the only one who want's to complete the line, "C'mon, Sal! The Tigers are playin'. TO-NIGHT. Never miss a game...?"
No.
----------------------------
DUZ XaT SEM RiT TQ YQ? - Jubal Early
http://www.nooalf.com
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Hello,
I must once again emphasize that Frem's philosophy of teaching empathy and compassion while protecting our young and helping them to prosper will encourage a reduction in 1 and 2. A population infused with love isn't generally going batshit crazy and looking to murder people.
I don't know about 3. Three is basically what people have been trying to solve for hundreds of years.
--Anthony
Note to Self:
Raptor - woman testifying about birth control is a slut (the term applies.)
Context: http://tinyurl.com/d6ozfej
Six - Wow, isn't Niki quite the CUNT? And, yes, I spell that in all caps....
http://tinyurl.com/bdjgbpe
Wulf - Niki is a stupid fucking bitch who should hurry up and die.
Context: http://tinyurl.com/afve3r9
“The stupid neither forgive nor forget; the naive forgive and forget; the wise forgive but do not forget.” -T. S. Szasz
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
(3) How do we take back the power of self-determination?
Well, the thing NOT to do is to spin your wheels on side issues - like gun ownership. If guns are a problem in your society - and they are here - fix the problem. It's not something one needs to agonize over too much.
As for THIS country, seriously - we've been told for so very long we are the best - we are exceptional - we have the best medical care, the highest standard of living, the greatest amount of freedom, the best chance of advancing oneself through effort, the longest lifespan, the most advanced science etc. And these things are demonstrably untrue. But people believe this is the best there is and literally can't imagine any better. And all the internet available doesn't seem enough to allow reality to penetrate the religion of USA!USA!USA!
Until people wake up from their trance there is not much to be done to increase self-determination.
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Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
(3) How do we take back the power of self-determination?
Well, the thing NOT to do is to spin your wheels on side issues - like gun ownership. If guns are a problem in your society - and they are here - fix the problem. It's not something one needs to agonize over too much.
As for THIS country, seriously - we've been told for so very long we are the best - we are exceptional - we have the best medical care, the highest standard of living, the greatest amount of freedom, the best chance of advancing oneself through effort, the longest lifespan, the most advanced science etc. And these things are demonstrably untrue. But people believe this is the best there is and literally can't imagine any better. And all the internet available doesn't seem enough to allow reality to penetrate the religion of USA!USA!USA!
Until people wake up from their trance there is not much to be done to increase self-determination.
Hello,
So you don't want me to spin my wheels over the issue of gun ownership. But you want me to fix the problem of gun ownership while waiting for people to come out of a trance?
--Anthony
Note to Self:
Raptor - woman testifying about birth control is a slut (the term applies.)
Context: http://tinyurl.com/d6ozfej
Six - Wow, isn't Niki quite the CUNT? And, yes, I spell that in all caps....
http://tinyurl.com/bdjgbpe
Wulf - Niki is a stupid fucking bitch who should hurry up and die.
Context: http://tinyurl.com/afve3r9
“The stupid neither forgive nor forget; the naive forgive and forget; the wise forgive but do not forget.” -T. S. Szasz
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
'Spinning wheels' is in regards to endless debate over a problem that could and should be fixed in a short time. And wasting your and everyone else's time, so that this problem, and other, bigger problems go unaddressed. Which is what you seem to want to do.
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