Season 4 Questions (no spoilers, please)

POSTED BY: Phoenixship
UPDATED: Wednesday, September 15, 2004 09:53
VIEWED: 6160
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PHOENIXSHIP

Monday, September 13, 2004 4:17 AM

Thanks to DVD technology, I'm finally getting to see season 4.

After watching the first two episodes, I'm wondering - exactly how did Wesley motivate Justine to help him locate Angel, even though she obviously had sworn her life to fight vampires? How was he certain that she was connected to his disappearance? Why did Wesley even care after what had happened with Connor? And wasn't Angel a little too quick to forgive Wesley?

It makes me sad to be watching the final season of "new" Jossdom.

"Why're you arguin' what's already been decided?"
Mal to Jayne, "Jaynestown"

IDEFIX

Monday, September 13, 2004 2:07 PM

I think he wasn't too picky in how to motivate her. torture? if keeping her locked up in his closet didn't motivate her enough.

Wes did it for Angel. Angel is his hero and that never changed not even after Angel tried to kill him and all his friends abandoned him for making a decision he thought was right. I think that's why he was so sad at the end of S3, he lost his friends and his hero. now he saw a chance to make it right again without loosing what's left of his pride.

how he found out about Justine's involvement I don't know. maybe he spied on Angel or Connor back in the end of S3, he didn't have anything else worthwhile to do then, apart from f***ing Lilah off course. maybe he saw Connor and Justine together plotting something. I think they never told us, but I could have missed it or forgotten. I only saw it once.

and I don't think Angel was easy on him. he's tried to kill him and shunned him for some months. when he got rescued by Wes after having lots of time to think everything through he just decided that it was enough for one error in judgement made with the best of intentions. don't you think?

I hope I didn't mention anything you haven't seen yet. don't wanna spoil your last fresh season. enjoy it! I loved it.

Idefix

EST120

Monday, September 13, 2004 2:15 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Phoenixship:
After watching the first two episodes, I'm wondering - exactly how did Wesley motivate Justine to help him locate Angel, even though she obviously had sworn her life to fight vampires? How was he certain that she was connected to his disappearance? Why did Wesley even care after what had happened with Connor? And wasn't Angel a little too quick to forgive Wesley?

not that i can help all THAT much, but here is my opinion:
justine did cut wesley's throat. he was certainly aware that she did it and that she and holtz were conspiring to take connor away from angel. given that justine and holtz were committed to killing angel, it seems a pretty natural assumption that she was involved in angel's disappearance.
i agree with the other post. locking her in a closet and probably beating the truth out of her certainly could be persuasive enough to get justine's cooperation.

"i can't comprehend the ways that i miss you, they come to light in my mistakes."
-neko case

CAPTAINCDC

Monday, September 13, 2004 9:02 PM

Just to add a little something extra, I think Wes rescued Angel at least partly because he knew that the side of good needed it's champion, Angel. According to prophecy, Angel was to play a prominent role in the apocalypse. He could not very well do that rotting at the bottom of the ocean.

May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one.

GROUNDED

Monday, September 13, 2004 9:28 PM

It's best not to try to understand S4... ;)

CAPTAINCDC

Monday, September 13, 2004 9:56 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Grounded:
It's best not to try to understand S4... ;)

Grounded, you and I could probably have a friendly debate over season 4 ad infinitum. I get the impression you thought it was the worst of the series. And myself, I think season 3&4 were the best of the series. It being a close race between 3&4 as to which one is my single favorite season. I like it though. Every time I write something about Angel, I anxiously await reading your inevitable reply since they are usually polar opposite to my post. Debate is good though, keep it up please. I am curious if you are a Buffy fan too. I thought considering how much we differ on Angel if the same would be true on Buffy. Oh well, we may differ on season 4, but I think we both share a love for the series and of course our beloved Firefly so we have that much in common at least.

May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one.

EMBERS

Monday, September 13, 2004 10:25 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Phoenixship:
How was he certain that she was connected to his disappearance? Why did Wesley even care after what had happened with Connor? And wasn't Angel a little too quick to forgive Wesley?

Wesley had been set up by Justine, so that he ended up betraying Angel and causing Connor to be lost...
so Wesley wanted to fix the problems he had caused (and continue to help TPTB)

Angel forgave his son for putting him in the ocean, so it probably wasn't that hard to forgive Wesley for the inadvertant betrayal (after all, at least Wes wasn't TRYING to hurt anyone)...
besides Angel had been revived with Wesley's own blood, that has to bring you closer together (LOL)

I have to say that I'm enjoying S4 more now that I'm rewatching it, but I still don't think it can compare to S5 (my personal favorite)
-------------------------
oh wait, you meant how did Wes know that Justine was connected w/Angel's disappearance into the sea...
but Wesley knew that Justine had been closely connected with Holtz, and since Connor was so committed to Holtz it wouldn't be too surprising to find Justine involved with Conner (helping w/the burial at sea and all).
Wes had become a pretty good detective and rogue demon hunter by this time, I'm pretty sure he found the trail pretty easy to follow.
(the surprise is that Fred & Gunn were so easily fooled by Connor for so long!)

JEWEL

Monday, September 13, 2004 11:13 PM

I think Angel forgave Wesley before the rescue.

When Angel was hallucinating the Thanksgiving dinner, Wesley was there and Angel was happy that everyone was together and he made a toast to "family". I think by then he had already forgiven Wes. I guess being locked in a box at the bottom of the ocean for three months (even a relatively shallow part) kind of puts things into perspective. He certainly had plenty of time to self reflect.

As to how Wes knew that Justine had anything to do with Angel's dissapearance? My theory is that, aside from Justine and Connor wanting Angel out of the way more than just about anyone, perhaps he got information from that one vampire that used Point Dume as a feeding ground (that Connor killed). He seemed to really do his homework and had gathered quite a bit of information on how to find Cordy as well.

Although feeling alienated from everyone he cared about, Wesley never lost the mission. He may never have thought that he'd be friends with Angel again. But he did know that Angel was needed and did so much good. He had to find Angel.

SUCCATASH

Monday, September 13, 2004 11:26 PM

All this talk about Angel forgiving Wesley - Angel has no choice, he needs Wesley's help to find Cordelia. When Angel says that he and Wesley are "okay," Wes looks annoyed and hands Angel a packet and says something like, "Here's what you really came for."

"Gott kann dich nicht vor mir beschuetzen, weil ich nicht boese bin."

GROUNDED

Tuesday, September 14, 2004 9:42 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by captaincdc:
Grounded, you and I could probably have a friendly debate over season 4 ad infinitum. I get the impression you thought it was the worst of the series. And myself, I think season 3&4 were the best of the series. It being a close race between 3&4 as to which one is my single favorite season. I like it though. Every time I write something about Angel, I anxiously await reading your inevitable reply since they are usually polar opposite to my post. Debate is good though, keep it up please. I am curious if you are a Buffy fan too. I thought considering how much we differ on Angel if the same would be true on Buffy. Oh well, we may differ on season 4, but I think we both share a love for the series and of course our beloved Firefly so we have that much in common at least.

Angel:
1. S1
2. S2
3. S3
4. S5
5. S4

Buffy:
1. S2
2. S1
3. S3
4. S4
5. S5
6. S7
7. S6

Firefly:
Well Firefly just plain rocks, but there aren't enough episodes to compare it with the other two.

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