Nooalf Discussion
POSTED BY: m52nickerson
UPDATED: Tuesday, January 10, 2017 13:45
VIEWED: 39366
PAGE 3 of 17
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Originally posted by m52nickerson:
His site does have a entry on Something Awful...
http://www.somethingawful.com/d/awful-links/awful-link-1080.php
Yep. I figured.
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Originally posted by HKCavalier:
But now he's revealed to be just another zeta male in a self-destructive struggle for dominance within a system he only pretends to oppose.
Wow. Nicely done.
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Besidez, American English iz so widespred that nobody who speaks any dialect uv English cant understand it.
So in other words, you'd be standardising the language to american phonetics, not having a phonetic language. As if we don't get enough americanisms/america the great shoved down our throats.
Also, damn its ugly to look at.
I did once read a book written photetically 'Feersum Endjin" By Iain M Banks. I found it interesting, but hard to read.
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You are correct about my social skillz, HK.
I gave up a long time ago trying to figure out and fix wutever my problem iz. I hav less than zero salez talent! No joke!
If you believe in GOD or sum other metafizikl controlling forse in the Universe, or at least a local life-destiny influencing intelligence, the hypothesis that people get a set amount uv total talent distributed over all areaz uv activity and an increase in wun requirez an equal decrease in otherz coud explain why I coudnt sell ice in the dezert to a stranded eskimo. I hav a greater ability to dezine systemz, especially mechanical devicez, than anybody I hav ever met. The uncanny anti-salez ability balansez that out very effectively.
HK rote:
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You seem to think that these factors have destroyed the coherency of our written language. I don't agree.
Then you are denying a plain fact. English spelling iz just short uv being a logografy. This makes it even less efficient than Chinese, since Chinese makes no pretense uv being a fonetic alfubetic system.
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I see language as a living thing and as one of our most democratic institutions we've got going.
So why do you accept the complete tyrany of 'correct' spelling?
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Yes, "random" individuals are responsible for what language is. That's not a glitch, it's a feature.
Agreed.
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I'm curious--and this is my attempt to converse with you--so, I'm curious if you have any thoughts on Orwell's 1984? Do you think he was full of shit about language? Do you see any similarities between what you propose and what he called "New Speak?"
No. He wuz profoundly correct.
Think carefully about wut I hav sed concerning children being taught to read and write.
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See, you want language to be more "reliable" and more "practical" than it is. Good for you. You think you know what a more reliable and practical English language would look like.
Nooalf basicly duz 1 thing; It standardizez the letter to sound correspondence. Big freekin deal!
Take the perspectiv uv impartial outside observerz; Kang and Kodos, for example. They woud wonder wut the problem with that iz. It iz the essential operating idea uv an alfabetic system, after all, so why are the English speakerz so outraged by this Nooalf thing?
The ansr iz that the way they were taught to read iz thru indoctrination, so they bekum very emotionally disturbed by anything that pokes their brainz in that area.
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Language is a link to the past. And the past cannot be improved.
The future can be, tho.
Hav you looked at my corporate site yet? [url] http://www.zolkorp.com]
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DUZ XaT SEM RiT TQ YQ? - Jubal Early
http://www.nooalf.com
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Originally posted by JO753:
I hav a greater ability to dezine systemz, especially mechanical devicez, than anybody I hav ever met.
Then instead of trying to sell people on a new spelling system become a mechanical engineer. You should have zero problems becoming high demanded if you are truly that good.
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Originally posted by JO753:Nooalf basicly duz 1 thing; It standardizez the letter to sound correspondence. Big freekin deal!
It is a big deal when you are trying to turn English into this...
XIS PAJ HaZ oL XU DETALZ UV HoW NQaLF WRKS
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Originally posted by JO753:Take the perspectiv uv impartial outside observerz; Kang and Kodos, for example.
The Simpson aliens, really...I mean fucking really?
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Originally posted by JO753:Hav you looked at my corporate site yet?
Perhaps it is not that you suck at selling, or that people stupidly resist your new spelling, but that they simply do not want what you are offering.
I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.
A warning to everyone, AURaptor is a known liar.
...and now a Fundie!
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=53359
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Originally posted by m52nickerson:
First off I'm debating you, not your best of the 80's style website.
Wuts the difference? I rote it, so you need to consider the ideaz prezented there just az carefully az the less refined prezentationz here.
80's style? HA! I hav heard that the www wuz limited to basic black on wite text back then. I like color and piks. Personally I dislike the cramped up & cluttered columz on many sites theze days. I especially hate the News sites, such az Hufpost, that are so loaded with adz, active content and vizitor recording crappola that you cant use the gorram scroll for at least 30 secondz no matter how fast your connection!
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You argue that teaching children standard spelling is teaching them that logic does not matter. This could only be true if there is an expectation that words are spelled phonetically.
There iz. Thats wut alfabetic systems do! Look up 'alphabet' in the dictionary.
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.....you still hand wave away different dialects. Which you claim on your site is because written language is not phonetic.
Fonetic spelling helps to reduce dialectical drift. Spanish is very widespred, yet the different dialects are relatively close. A simple fonetic spelling helps increase literacy and literacy helps reduce dialectical drift.
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It really comes down to the fact that you have all these claims, but not one shred of empirical evidence to support them.
Are you denying that we hav a literacy problem in the English speaking countryz? Here: [url] http://www.childrenofthecode.org/]
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You claim that it has been debunked years ago that the roots of a word can't help someone derive its meaning, yet you give examples of doing just that.
My claim iz that it cannot be relied upon. Would you print 1000 copyz uv your resume with a word on it that you 'deduced' the meaning uv without looking it up to be sure? Wut examplez did I give besidez the jokes earlier?
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You say nooalf can be standard and be in different dialects. How the fuck would you do that?
Its eazy. Therez a dictionary pronunciation key perfect way to say each word. You could rite everything that way in Nooalf. Then therez a dialect thats considered perfect or at least considered to be proper. You can spell that with Nooalf. Then there are hundredz uv dialects that can be spelled with Nooalf at least close enuf to identify them, even if you cant understand them.
I spoke with a relative in England yesterday. Somewhere around Lincolnshire I think. Coud hardly understand a word, but if I had a recording, I'd be able to transcribe it in Nooalf bekuz it haz a letter for every foneme he uzed.
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My favorite part is claiming that if the rest of the world would wake up and see the problem your friend would win with his system because he is better prepared.
I sed he mite. I dont think so, tho, bekuz hiz system iz very inefficient. Nobody woud want to spend twice az much time writing az they do now.
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DUZ XaT SEM RiT TQ YQ? - Jubal Early
http://www.nooalf.com
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Originally posted by MAL4PREZ:
Jo - do you go about posting in your newspeak at all the chat sites you can find, trying to generate traffic for your page and win over converts?
I dont expect to convert anybody. Waste uv time, since people who are already literate in English dont feel any need for improvement. My main reazon for viziting forumz iz that I hav an interest in the general subject they are about. The nonstandard spelling iz an eazy way to increase awareness uv the illiteracy problem, its root cauze and the solution.
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Especially ironic is your reference to Idiocracy. Your odd invention and your dismissal of all nuances of dialect, communication, history, and meaning in written language are right out of that `verse.
Especially ironic to me iz how your opinion can be so exactly rong.
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If you're serious, how about carrying out a study as to your language's efficacy, then submitting the results to a peer-reviewed journal? Do that, rather than waving your hands and repeating your (somewhat cluttered and hard to read) opinions, and maybe you'll get more positive responses.
Thats a reazonable suggestion. Maybe I'll do that if I ever hav any money.
I dont expect to get a good response, tho. I hav found that the higher level uv education people get in language subjects, the less conducive they are to Nooalf.
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DUZ XaT SEM RiT TQ YQ? - Jubal Early
http://www.nooalf.com
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Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:
So in other words, you'd be standardising the language to american phonetics, not having a phonetic language. As if we don't get enough americanisms/america the great shoved down our throats.
Are you British? If so, you are a fine wun to be complaining.
In any case, you are mischaracterizing the basic idea.
A language iz a dialect with an army. America haz the biggest army. Not my fault.
But cheer up!
An important aspect uv this iz that printing iz going away. The cost uv riting stuff in many languagez and dialects iz nearing zero. Any 'schmoe' with an internet connection can translate anything he wants into hiz favorit dialect no matter how few people speak it.
And with Nooalf, sumwun on the other side uv the planet who never heard uv the Lower South Wales suburban punk dialect will be able to 'hear' it by reading it in Nooalf.
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Also, damn its ugly to look at.
Its all about familiarity. And I shoud also make sum more attractive fonts.
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DUZ XaT SEM RiT TQ YQ? - Jubal Early
http://www.nooalf.com
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Wow. And just like that another ugly American has achieved that coveted title.
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Do I think there is a literacy problems in English speaking countries, no. I think we could improve but I don not think there is a huge problem. The CIA World Book rates the US and the United Kingdom both at 99% literacy. Now a they NAAL study completed in 2003 showed lower rates. It also had a higher standard considering full proficiency to be at an undergraduate level. Even it this study a large portion of the low ends of literacy is ESL and other deficiencies.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_literacy_rate
http://nces.ed.gov/naal/kf_demographics.asp
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Literacy_in_the_United_States
Further more you would have to show, empirically, that nooalf would lesson the problem there are with literacy rates. Until you have that you have enough to get a cup of coffee with an extra $1.25.
Now the definition of alphabet;
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/alphabet?s=t
I see one mention of phonetics, and this only states that the alphabet represent the sounds. Of course for a large part they do, but as this is only a single definition and certainly not the first there is no expectation of words being spelled phonically.
The whole dialect issue seems to be tying you into knots. On one end you argue that nooalf would reduce dialect drift and that one certain dialect that is considered proper. Which one would that be? I'm sure the English would want a say in that chap!
To confuse things more after you talk about a standard, you than say that nooalf can easily translate into other dialects. Okay, so if we do that it is not magically going to let you understand that relative better. Nor would it let him understand you better if reading nooalf written in your dialect. If you start exchanging e-mails with him (and drop the bullshit spelling of yours) you could understand each other fine.
The other thing you are stuck on is the fact that a person can perfectly understand the meaning of words based on there roots. It seems to you that if it is not 100% than the hell with it. Were is the logic in that? In those times a person can't look up a word roots can be important. They can be clues to a words meaning. They don't have to be perfect to help.
Again just because nooalf is shorter does not make it more proficient. It might if we invest massive changed to thing such as keyboards. You use "X" for a "th" sound. I am willing to wager most people who can type with any thing in the way of speed can hit "th" just as fast if not faster that "X". No to mention that you destroy capitalization rules which are a huge part of skimming text and identifying things such as proper names.
Finally I find it funny that you thin Spanish dialects are closer to each other than the English ones.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_dialects_and_varieties
I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.
A warning to everyone, AURaptor is a known liar.
...and now a Fundie!
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=53359
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Quote:
Originally posted by JO753:
I dont expect to get a good response, tho. I hav found that the higher level uv education people get in language subjects, the less conducive they are to Nooalf.
You would think that would be a clue.
I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.
A warning to everyone, AURaptor is a known liar.
...and now a Fundie!
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=53359
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