Solidarity and Hate.
POSTED BY: FREMDFIRMA
UPDATED: Tuesday, September 4, 2012 04:07
VIEWED: 9106
PAGE 4 of 8
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Originally posted by Storymark:Quote:
Originally posted by m52nickerson:
...and what are those rates? ...... Suicide rate less than 1%.
Well, yes, if you're looking only at that limited group. Another way to look at it is that servicemembers account for a fifth of American suicides, and that a service member or vet kills themselves every 80 minutes.
Which is higher than is should be, yes. There is no doubt that the military can do better for vets returning home from war.
That does not mean a vast majority of those who serve do not benefit from there service.
I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.
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Originally posted by BYTEMITE:Quote:
The article you linked to does mention WWII use, but does not talk about use today.
It also mentions use in Korea and Vietnam and doesn't say that it stopped, and it's pretty bloody obvious it's still going on.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3071789/ns/us_news-only/t/go-pills-war-dru
gs/
Go pills are widely acknowledged in the air force today, and a half-second of thought will demonstrate that groundtroops would also require pick me ups like this to operate in the conditions they do. Whether or not they realize they're taking them is another story.Quote:
Mistakes are few and far between for the number of missions run.
Say, what's the noncombatant death toll for Iraq and Afghanistan, any takers? I'm not asking about Pakistan because according to the CIA there hasn't been any civilian deaths in Pakistan.
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/12/world/asia/12drones.html?pagewanted=
all
Yes, it is still going on. I think I said that some pilots are using. I agree that some ground troops may also use. That does not mean the military is pumping every member with them as you suggested.
As for the civilian casualties the numbers are high, but they are not all from US forces. They are not all mistakes. War is messy, sometimes you attack knowing civilians will get killed.
I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.
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That does not mean the military is pumping every member with them as you suggested.
Didn't say that, did I? Perhaps read the thread more carefully. I'm done being nice and diplomatic here.
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They are not all mistakes. War is messy, sometimes you attack knowing civilians will get killed.
What a lovely bit of justification for killing innocents. Perhaps I should declare war, then this would be totally okay.
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"Though there's still neurological effects with provigil so I'm not sure it's necessarily safer."
I volunteered as a test group for the maximum dose. One of my efforts to the advancement of science and medicine. It gave me a weird headache that I've never had before or since, and strange dreams.
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Originally posted by BYTEMITE:
Didn't say that, did I? Perhaps read the thread more carefully. I'm done being nice and diplomatic here.
Please spare me the "done being nice" crap.
You certainly intimated it.
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Originally posted by BYTEMITE:What a lovely bit of justification for killing innocents. Perhaps I should declare war, then this would be totally okay.
Not saying that it is okay, just that it is a reality of war. It will always be a reality of war.
I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.
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Byte ahem THIS is what you posted about the experience of being in the Army:
"All that shows is that someone tricked you out of two or more years of your life and fed you amphetamines and testosterone in a dirt hole somewhere."
Well, you really can't be tricked into it. You've since not repeated or defended your claim about being "fed ... testosterone", which really isn't true anyway. And on top of that you implied that EVERYONE’S experience will be one where you are "fed ... amphetamines", since you made no exception or qualification. You really did overstate your case. Not to say that drug use isn't rampant in certain areas, though it's probably mostly self-prescribed and administered. But I happen to know people who were in Iraq and are in Afghanistan, and they're not the drug-crazed military-created idiots you claim that they are. That really demeans them.
And, being a child of WWII, a young adult during Vietnam, and having seen various other wars come ... and go ... it is a sad fact that wars are fought on civilian turf and civilians die. US policy even guarantees it with carpet bombing, lacing areas with explosives, bombing 'military' targets in civilian areas, destroying infrastructure, 'cleansing' areas like Fallujah, drone attacks etc.
If war was about young men with an itch to fight voluntarily duking it out in an isolated field somewhere, it wouldn't be so terrible.
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You certainly intimated it.
I *intimated* that Indrid is a little excitable. You're the one assuming that I meant everyone in the armed forces.
What's a body gotta do to be subtle around here?
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Not saying that it is okay, just that it is a reality of war. It will always be a reality of war.
The way I figure it, if you're accidentally or intentionally killing civilians, you've forgotten why you're fighting.
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fed ... testosterone"
Right, because they don't ever sneak steroids and because the culture isn't about proving masculinity.
I've been pretty careful, Kiki, about what exactly I've been referring to. Even qualified myself a number of times. I have overstated nothing.
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"... because they don't ever sneak steroids ..."
It's kinda' hard to 'sneak' injections to large numbers of young people without someone being alert enough to notice it. Also, it's not a 'one and done' as any bodybuilder will attest.
It doesn't happen.
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You said you think amphetamines use happens on an individual basis? You don't think there aren't drug tests for that as well? The official policy is against drug use and steroids, but there's exceptions, and the reality is there's go pills and there's probably steroids, and all of that is unofficially sanctioned, it's just a matter of not drawing attention to it if someone is using it.
You really think that people wouldn't try to get every advantage they can when they're going into combat and they might possibly die?
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