America is a violent country

POSTED BY: kpo
UPDATED: Sunday, May 3, 2026 18:45
VIEWED: 5120
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NIKI2

Wednesday, July 25, 2012 9:36 PM

I agree with all of you, much to my dismay. I think it's more than that, and the "more than that" also REFLECTS what's happening. Portrayed violence--movies, TV, video games--the anonymity of the internet where people can express violent rhetoric they wouldn't otherwise, AND be encouraged to do same; societal pressures of vast and growing inequality; disenfranchisement from the government...it's "chicken or the egg" once again...did these things create the atmosphere, or is there inherent insanity out there which they merely reflect? Who can say? But either way, the proliference of guns (especially automatic weapons) in the hands of our current society is, in my opinion, unhealthy and contributory to further degredation of society and sanity.

MAGONSDAUGHTER

Wednesday, July 25, 2012 9:44 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:

Bingo. Several people over the last few days have brought up that it's our "insane" society that is driving these things, not the guns. So the question I'm asking is, if you believe that the entire country, or a significant portion of it, is completely insane, psychotic, sociopathic, then are you comfortable with such people having ready access to massive arsenals at a moment's notice?

Personally I think we're like crowded animals in a coup. If there gets to be too many of us, we start frenzied attacks.

I do believe we are just animals and have similar responses to our primate cousins. That's why in zoos now they try and reproduce natural habitats, otherwise the animals show similar signs of craziness and neurosis that appear in humans. Do we live in environments that create group neurosis. I'm starting to believe it.

It's not just america, either. It's just that in america, its easier to do a lot of damage because of the easy availability of high tech weaponry DESIGNED TO KILL MORE EFFECTIVELY AND EASILY. This fact seems so bleeding obvious to everyone outside the US, but the gun lobby propaganda is simply astonishing in its effectiveness within the US, that people don't seem to see this as being obvious. Therefore you get the stupid arguments about guns being no worse than cars, or knives, or bats. If that's the case I challenge you to a military battle. My battalion will go up against a fully armed and defended US battalion, only mine will carry knives and bats, and drive cars. We'll see who wins, shall we?

6IXSTRINGJACK

Thursday, July 26, 2012 12:21 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
Meanwhile, if it's all about a case of national insanity, then do you firmly believe that the most insane among us should have ready access to firearms with high-capacity drum mags?

No Kwick, I don't. You bring up a good point here.

However, I also don't believe that the only people in the world who should have access to such an arsenal are Government employees (many of whom have shown themselves to be nearly as bat shit insane as the "Colorado Joker" themselves).

I don't know the answer here, but I have to believe that some fair middle ground can be reached.

Sure, I'm proud to be a gun owner, but more than that, since I haven't had any formal training with a weapon other than how to take it apart and clean it and put it back together, I'm even more proud of the fact that I've never fired it or even loaded it.

I respect the hell out of that tool and without knowing what I'm doing I'd hate to accidentally hurt myself or another with it and become the next Lifetime movie or after-school special.

"A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." ~Shepherd Book

FREMDFIRMA

Thursday, July 26, 2012 1:06 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by kpo:
I would go further and suggest that guns act as a catalyst for social breakdown, making it happen faster, and to a worse extent.

Might consider how that statement looks to someone who thinks our current social order NEEDS breaking...

Had a discussion with a paladin-type friend of mine the other day, when he was going on about how compliance with the law is important to social order and justice, and laid into him, asking what if the Law *required* that he persecute, or disciminate, or act in manners contrary to his own honor and beliefs...
In short, what if the society he was within was itself, evil ?

Cause this is a sticking point with me - one of the things which marks me as a "Villian" is deviation from social norms, lack of respect for the law, working against or toward the destruction of social order....
And this is applied WITHOUT RESPECT TO THE NATURE OF THAT SOCIETY.
Ever thing the things I wanna break, they might NEED breaking ?

After some thought, yon paladin friend expressed that he "follows a higher law", and I countered by pointing out the supreme arrogance of considering ones own honor above and beyond the laws of man and state...
And called him a Villain.
He's still chewing on that one.

-Frem

KPO

Thursday, July 26, 2012 1:18 PM

Quote:
Therefore you get the stupid arguments about guns being no worse than cars, or knives, or bats.

You also get the claim that gun rampages are no more devestating than car, or knife rampages would theoretically be. The thing is (in the rest of the world at least) you get car rampages, and you get knife rampages. And you even get vehicle AND knife rampages: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Akihabara_massacre

The reason why you don't hear about these attacks as much is because they are far less deadly than gun rampages.

It's not personal. It's just war.

KPO

Thursday, July 26, 2012 1:29 PM

Quote:
Ever think the things I wanna break, they might NEED breaking?

Ok. Ever think that the things that you want to break, might NOT need breaking? And to the extent that they are bad, might just need repairing?

It's not personal. It's just war.

FREMDFIRMA

Friday, July 27, 2012 4:54 PM

All the time - you got any better ideas, I'd like to hear em.
There's social structures in our society that can be repaired, that should be, and I do try...

And then there's shit which MUST be destroyed, the Hellcamps, the notion that Altruism is self-destructive evil and Greed and Exploitation are noble, for instance...
The idea that beating people into compliance is the best way to do anything.
The notion that Empathy and Tolerance are weakness...

Some things cannot stand.

-F

KWICKO

Friday, July 27, 2012 5:21 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by kpo:
Quote:
Therefore you get the stupid arguments about guns being no worse than cars, or knives, or bats.

You also get the claim that gun rampages are no more devestating than car, or knife rampages would theoretically be. The thing is (in the rest of the world at least) you get car rampages, and you get knife rampages. And you even get vehicle AND knife rampages: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Akihabara_massacre

The reason why you don't hear about these attacks as much is because they are far less deadly than gun rampages.

It's not personal. It's just war.

And, I'd wager, far less common.

"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero

"The groin cup and throat protector have about as much ballistic protection as the kneepads I wear when I'm doing a job that requires me to be on my knees." - Troll

NIKI2

Friday, July 27, 2012 8:56 PM

Magons: You mentioned in another thread that you must not make an impact 'cuz someone didn't remember you're from Down Under. You KNOW full well I do, 'cuz I mention it a lot, and believe me, I pay attention to both you and PK, becasue as I've said before, my friends outside the US teach me a lot from both their outside perspectives AND because they get news we don't. I thought KPO was British, too...and we used to have Citizen (I may not have liked him, but I paid attention) and Gino was a Canook (which he took as a pejorative, but which I saw as a familiar nickname, like Yankee or Brit or Ozzie).

When someone mentions where they live, whether they're male or female, what age they are, etc., I keep track, along with maybe a note of specific likes, dislikes, etc. It makes it easier for me to know who I'm talking to and what their perspective might be. It goes beyond that with you and PK, 'cuz first off, I came to like you both and second, I've got a terrible weakness for Ozzies and Brits. Aside from that, I had two very special friends from Australia, and ended up with real good feelings about you guys. As for Brits, they've always been my weakness and I adore the country. Nonetheless, I don't think I'm the only one who remembers where you two come from; I just wish we had more of you, and others from other countries, too. We need perspectives from outside our country to help us understand things better.

Anyway, on this one. I wanted to note that it's not just the propaganda, it's more the power and the money the NRA weilds, believe me. They are considered the second most powerful lobby in our government, and they work with ALEC, which is a right-wing "nonprofit" (HAH) that WRITES LAWS for their Republican cronies to pass. It's far more than just the propaganda! And a HUGE number of us do see it, know why it's there and know we can't touch them...it's not blindness, it's impotence! The NRA "grades" candidates, and the pro-gun people take that very seriously, as do contributors and potential backers...they know any even MENTION of any kind of gun restrictions is a black mark against them and might cost them an election. It's far more complex than just the propaganda, and the propaganda doesn't really work on most of us anyway, it's just fodder for the gunbunnies to eat up and regurgitate as talking points.

As to

Quote:
Personally I think we're like crowded animals in a coup. If there gets to be too many of us, we start frenzied attacks.

I consider that very right on. I've never forgotten an experiment I saw on TV long ago, where they put a bunch of rats in a huge plastic (i.e., see through) "cage". It was really cool, stocked with enough food, etc.; essentially everything they could want. Then they left them alone, except for providing food, etc. Even with all conveniences and enough food as the population grew, when it reached a certain point they went nuts, started fighting, eating each other, just completely insane. They cut it off after a certain point (thankfully), but it made a hell of an impression on me, and the more our population increases, the more I remember it.

I also believe, as many have suggested, that once the population gets too big, we will definitely start going nuts...over food, water, you name it. It's already started and will just get worse, and with the high-density population in many places in America, it's just as you said already.

ANTHONYT

Friday, July 27, 2012 10:23 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
Quote:
Originally posted by kpo:
Quote:
Therefore you get the stupid arguments about guns being no worse than cars, or knives, or bats.

You also get the claim that gun rampages are no more devestating than car, or knife rampages would theoretically be. The thing is (in the rest of the world at least) you get car rampages, and you get knife rampages. And you even get vehicle AND knife rampages: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Akihabara_massacre

The reason why you don't hear about these attacks as much is because they are far less deadly than gun rampages.

It's not personal. It's just war.

And, I'd wager, far less common.

"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero

"The groin cup and throat protector have about as much ballistic protection as the kneepads I wear when I'm doing a job that requires me to be on my knees." - Troll

Hello,

I'm not sure what you want to class as a 'rampage' but I'm not convinced the phenomenon is much less deadly nor much less common in other parts of the world.

Four in 2010, two in 2011 in China. School massacres. 21 dead, 90 injured all told.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_Chinese_school_attacks

So... did they have more rampages that were less deadly individually but just as harmful as a sum? Was it a big improvement over our native massacres here?

I think social problems are the root cause. There and here. Something in society is driving people out of their skulls. I do not see guns as a catalyst in this. Just an available tool.

--Anthony

Note to Self:
Raptor - woman testifying about birth control is a slut (the term fits.)
Six - Wow, isn't Niki quite the CUNT? And, yes, I spell that in all caps....
Wulf - Niki is a stupid fucking bitch who should hurry up and die.

“The stupid neither forgive nor forget; the naive forgive and forget; the wise forgive but do not forget.” -Thomas Szasz