Can Joss do no wrong??

POSTED BY: OPPYH
UPDATED: Tuesday, September 7, 2004 09:53
VIEWED: 8029
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IDEFIX

Friday, September 3, 2004 3:06 PM

just don't fight over it.

I think that's what makes the shows so good that we can't agree on what the bad EPs/story acs/seasons/characters... are. there's always gonna be someone who thinks something is bad or just doesn't like it. but if most of the fans agree they don't like something than it's bad (or they are sheep following a leader but that's another debate).

there's nothing bad about family except for the family and that's what's supposed to be bad. it's about finding a new family when the original one sucks. and spike hitting tara to make a point and actually be pleased that it hurts him is one of the great moments. just my opinion though. feel free to hate the EP, I have no problem with that.

I love season 6 because everything's falling apart, I don't need my tv to be funny and nice, as long as it's good and deep and real somehow. I tend to overlook the small inconsistencies as long as it feels real. and everything falling to pieces appropos of nothing feels absolutely real to me at this point. just think about the scene when buffy tells giles everything that happened and waits for him to throw a hissy-fit or whatever and he just starts laughing because there's nothing he could do and laughter is what buffy needs most.

about the key and blood thing, I understood it that way: the form of the key shaped the form it had to be used it was the bloodletting because the key was in human form not the other way around. if it had been an object it would have to be used in a different way. the energy needed to flow into a specific place at a specific point of time that's what was given, how that was accomplished was dependant on the form of the key. but they never explained it all that much.

but that's actually something I love about Joss' shows, they make you think about things instead of giving you every single detail.

Idefix

KINGPAUSE

Friday, September 3, 2004 5:41 PM

Hey, I love the guy, and he is the guy responsible for two of the greatest television shows of all time (I won't tell you which), but for anyone who thinks the guy can do no wrong, I have only two words:

ALIEN RESURRECTION

STANDING8

Friday, September 3, 2004 6:09 PM

astonishing xmen is getting really good.

-Soul Rebel-

a love supreme dreaming...

http://www.livejournal.com/users/standing8

updated: 7/30/04!

GROUNDED

Saturday, September 4, 2004 9:33 AM

"as long as it's good and deep and real somehow"

Season 6 was none of the above after Tabula Rasa. The dialogue is woeful, the plotting is sub-soap opera and half the cast has nothing to do while Spike and Buffy are off 'making bad decisions'...

Alien Resurrection: Apparently Joss had very little to do with the version that actually made it to film.

IDEFIX

Saturday, September 4, 2004 10:45 AM

and all of that isn't proven in any way. it seems to be a matter of taste.

I loved the Xander/Anya storyline with him deciding much too late and also just in time that he wasn't ready to be married and her going back into the vengeance business because of it. and Willow's descent into darkness is one of the most fascinating stories in all of the buffyverse for me. I didn't care too much for the geek-trio story but that after TR there was nothing more than Spike and Buffy making bad decisions isn't true. and for my taste that was a very good story too, her using him to feel something and then realising it. and I liked the EP "Normal Again" it was a sweet way of saying 'and maybe this is all a fantasy' which it is of course. and Amy got de-rat-ed. I loved to have her back. the longer I think about it the more I find to like about the second half of season 6. so I really can't agree with you.

there was no Giles and there wasn't too much Dawn but all the others got their fair share I think.

Idefix

GROUNDED

Saturday, September 4, 2004 8:43 PM

Normal Again is mightily overrated. It's a decent enough premise, but it's also a story used many times over in various other shows/stories and NA doesn't really add anything new to it. I'm not saying you shouldn't like S6 etc., I'm saying that thematically and stylistically, S6 was a step down from what had gone before.

Read this:

http://www.boilsandblindingtorment.com/Wrecked.htm

A lot of what they say carries over to the rest of latter S6.

"Willow's descent into darkness is one of the most fascinating stories in all of the buffyverse for me"

She gets addicted to magic and her girlfriend gets killed - that's barely 2-dimensional as descents into darkness go. I'm not sure why this one didn't work out because ME seem generally good at making these things convincing (see Wesley Wyndam-Pryce, the Life and Times of).

NEDWARD

Sunday, September 5, 2004 11:17 PM

I think Family is a lot like (for example) Objects in Space, in that if you get where Joss is coming from, it works very well. If you don't get what the point was, you're not going to have such good memories of it. Different eps for different folks, but I shed a tear for Family.

And did anyone else think Tabula Rasa had a lot of connections to that ep? They seemed linked to me somehow (happened to see both tonight, out of order).

BIKISDAD

Monday, September 6, 2004 12:09 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by nedward:
I think Family is a lot like (for example) Objects in Space, in that if you get where Joss is coming from, it works very well. If you don't get what the point was, you're not going to have such good memories of it. Different eps for different folks, but I shed a tear for Family.

And did anyone else think Tabula Rasa had a lot of connections to that ep? They seemed linked to me somehow (happened to see both tonight, out of order).

I agree with you on "Family". I loved it as well. The whole idea of Buffy, Dawn, et al, accepting Tara into their extended family was great. And having even Spike help out made it really special.

Hadn't thought about a connection between "Family" and "TR". I'll have to try watching them back-to-back and see what I think.

Apathy on the Rise. No One Cares.

CHILLI

Monday, September 6, 2004 4:37 PM

There are two reasons why I dislike Family.

1) It's full of saccharine. Joss really lays everything in on too thick.

2) The only reason The Gang appears to stick up for Tara is because Her Family have such pathlogically screwed up agendas. I don't get the impression they know, or like, Her any better than when the episode started. It'd have been nice if it was more of a gradual change, and not a big twist near the end of Act Four.

This is Chilli, signing off.

CALLIOPE79

Monday, September 6, 2004 5:10 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Grounded:
"as long as it's good and deep and real somehow"

Season 6 was none of the above after Tabula Rasa. The dialogue is woeful, the plotting is sub-soap opera and half the cast has nothing to do while Spike and Buffy are off 'making bad decisions'...

Just to put in my two cents, and I'm not saying you're wrong, because everyone is entitled to the way they feel about it... but personally, Season 6 was one of my absolute favourites. I thought it told an amazing story, and I loved that things got hard and gritty and dark. Sometimes that's the best way to really feel out the characters -- seeing them at their lowest point. Sure, Season 6 had some highs and lows but I think the former far outweighed the latter. I honestly don't think there was any other direction for the plot to go after what happened with Buffy's death and resurrection. It was hard to watch at times, but as other people in this thread already mentioned... the most important thing is that it makes you feel something. Season 6 does that for me more than any other. I stand by what my profile says.. Joss is a genious

Hope I didn't step on any toes.. and definitely feel free to disagree with me, but please play nice

~*~ Calliope Lang

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