They finally did it...
POSTED BY: whozit
UPDATED: Saturday, June 23, 2012 20:23
VIEWED: 12330
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Ok well, you know I guess this is indefensible to an extent :D. I can only say that here what you're dealing with is 'classic' cinema/TV. It is cheesy you're right, but these creatives do tend to do this kind of thing. Chances are Andrew Marlowe is a fan of Hitchcock and in particular Vertigo, because it has all the motifs employed in that film. That I guess is just a writers privilege if you will. But fair enough you point out it's flaws.
They all do it. Joss does it with Buffy when Tara runs away from the Gentlemen then inexplicably trips over flat grass! It's just the language of the medium. *Shrugg* But I can let it slide personally (sometimes) because it's all about entertainment.
True. I just got through a conversation in another thread about how River could jump off Serenity at her withers... Fifty feet from the ground above the cargo bay airlock.
We speculated it was either lower gravity or that River might also be telekinetic.
I suppose maybe being kicked out of immersion by the cliche slowly losing grip fall catch with the nearby fire escape made me more able to notice the other writing character motivation problems and if I'd been more into the show I might have been able to overlook all the rest.
But since I wasn't, I can't.
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Originally posted by THESOMNAMBULIST:
I love the fun of the show, and the subculture, but I hate that it feels dumbed down and flippant to viewers that pay attention.
I don't see why if you don't like something it is somehow dumbed down. I hear that phrase a lot and I think it's overused. But that's just my opinion. I think they did a great job; but I've always felt there was never going to be a satisfactory way to realise Kate and Rick's relationship. It had, as all these things do, become to big to pacify and it was always going to seem awkward. A bit like the ending to Lost; there was nothing grandiose enough to bring that to a satisfying conclusion.
The show is about a DETECTIVE and a WRITER. It should be smarter than yer av-er-age bear. Instead, I get the feeling it's more for people who aren't picky or for teens who haven't seen every other crime show in the last twenty years. They are re-hashing every plot point ever written, putting it in a tumble dryer, pulling it out and pretending that it's fresh, which for a few, I guess it is...Just not for me. To ME it feels dumbed down. But then I've read or seen just about every thing crime-wise out there at some point, as there isn't much else to do here. I've just recently gotten into the new Sherlock Holmes on PBS, and the writing on that blows Castle out of the water (granted Sherlock is supposed to be superhuman and Beckett ain't). If you haven't, I recommend "Scandal in Belgravia" the ending was epic! I woke up still figuring out the bigger plot points and giggling to myself. Watch THAT and tell me there isn't a vast-y difference here....
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To be fair, you're comparing stuff based off a classic literature character to popculture television.
(<3 Sherlock Holmes)
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Hello again Wishimay.
Originally posted by Wishimay:
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The show is about a DETECTIVE and a WRITER. It should be smarter than yer av-er-age bear.
Well it is.
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Instead, I get the feeling it's more for people who aren't picky or for teens who haven't seen every other crime show in the last twenty years.
Again I still don't see the need to put down the people who enjoy this kind of thing. Can people not just enjoy it without be categorised as 'less' intelligent? I know that when my girlfriend and I are done with work and we're back home after a long day, we're just happy to decompress over a tv show. There aren't many that we like to watch as a couple as our tastes vary, but with Castle it's something that we can both engage with and have a giggle along the way and just let the difficulties of the day wash over us. I just find it sad that this genuinely pleasant routine is considered dumbing down. But so be it I guess.
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They are re-hashing every plot point ever written, putting it in a tumble dryer, pulling it out and pretending that it's fresh
How are they pretending it's fresh exactly? I can't believe any producer of a TV cop show is thinking they're content is unique.
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I've just recently gotten into the new Sherlock Holmes on PBS, and the writing on that blows Castle out of the water (granted Sherlock is supposed to be superhuman and Beckett ain't). If you haven't, I recommend "Scandal in Belgravia" the ending was epic! I woke up still figuring out the bigger plot points and giggling to myself. Watch THAT and tell me there isn't a vast-y difference here....
I take it we're talking about the BBC version. Here in the UK we're really saturated with Cop/Crime/Forensic type dramas, as well as period drama's so for me personally I'm over it. The character is a classic and during my lifetime I must have seen Peter Cushing, Christopher Lee, Basil Rathbone, Jeremy Brett, Michael Cain and a few more play this character, and I can honestly say with my hand on my heart I've always found the guy ludicrous and hokey! The character is so over the top I just want his face punched in. In fact most of the time I want him to get it completely wrong and be made a fool.
Now that doesn't diminish the quality of the writing and Steven Moffat (Writer of the present incarnation of Holmes) is one of the best writers for TV that we have in the U.K. at the moment, but I just don't like Sherlock Holmes. He's a ridiculous character that can only be appreciated if you really, really dispense with reality.
There is a Vasty difference you're right, but it's not as vast as you think.... At least not for a Brit watching yet another rendition of a hyperbolic super sleuth.
Also it should be noted that here in the U.K. a season is generally only six episodes (though I don't know if this is the case with Sherlock Holmes) so the pressure to produce quality & content is less demanding. Given a season of Castle is 22/23 episodes it's no surprise it may not match up to six episodes of Sherlock Holmes for quality....
°...Well here I am.°
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Hello again Byte,
Originally posted by BYTEMITE:
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I suppose maybe being kicked out of immersion by the cliche slowly losing grip fall catch with the nearby fire escape made me more able to notice the other writing character motivation problems and if I'd been more into the show I might have been able to overlook all the rest.
But since I wasn't, I can't.
I think that's the crux of it really Byte. I think it is about being into the show. You make concessions for a show if you've followed it along the way more so than someone who may be sitting on the fence over it.
°...Well here I am.°
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Moffat's Sherlock Holmes has been three episodes each season, but they are double-length, more like a mini-movie than a typical episode.
Som, I'm curious if you watch, or have watched, The Mentalist. Patrick Jane is essentially the same as Holmes, a hyper-alert meticulous gatherer of information. Neither are normal characters, but neither are ludicrous either. Both are superior thinkers and are well aware of their abilities, and thus can seem extremely full of themselves.
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Hi EC.
No I haven't watched The Mentalist. I probably should at least try it. My brother keeps telling me to watch it. You recommend it then...?
Thanks for the info on Holmes. I had watched the first one and it was really clever, but I just found Holmes hookey. Martin Freeman's Watson was great and really he's the character designed to relate to, but I just could not get into it and I must admit to being really disappointed with the reveal.
But you know I just have a problem with that character. Totally all my hang-up I'm sure.
°...Well here I am.°
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Originally posted by THESOMNAMBULIST:
Again I still don't see the need to put down the people who enjoy this kind of thing. Can people not just enjoy it without be categorised as 'less' intelligent?
[lifetime I must have seen Peter Cushing, Christopher Lee, Basil Rathbone, Jeremy Brett, Michael Cain
.... appreciated if you really, really dispense with reality.
1. If we were talking about the people who enjoy Jersey Shore, would you still stay the same thing??
Really, I'm glad you and yer GF are happy with watching Castle, I know it's hard to find things to do as a couple.2.You forgot Robert Downey, Jr.
3.I thought that WAS the point of TV and entertainment...
I'll just agree to disagree. You can watch Castle and I'll sit around and go PFFFT!ARE THEY EVEN TRYING?? and I will watch Sherlock and you can sit around and say GRR, THAT GUY IS A POMPUS ASS!! I'm guessing you don't like "House" either.
Agreed?
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Originally posted by Wishimay:
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1. If we were talking about the people who enjoy Jersey Shore, would you still stay the same thing??
I don't know what Jersey Shore is, but I'm guessing it's something pretty awful right :D? You know there are people out there who regard watching Sci-Fi as dumbing down, or that a Stephen King novel isn't really literature or that playing a computer game is redundant.... Point is I don't think it even handed to judge people on what they individually like from entertainment. It's all very personal and there can be many a reason why people watch what they do.
Fair enough you/I don't necessarily share the same sentiments regarding Castle and I'm not challenging that, but would you really disregard me if we met somewhere and it came out I watch Castle. Could you really decide there and then that, you'd be wasting your time talking to me and that I'd have nothing worthwhile to offer in conversation because by your standards I watch a dumb show...?
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2.You forgot Robert Downey, Jr.
A good Sherlock he is too, and yes I did. Sorry.
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3.I thought that WAS the point of TV and entertainment...
So an intelligent show can veer from credibility then?
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I'll just agree to disagree. You can watch Castle and I'll sit around and go PFFFT!ARE THEY EVEN TRYING?? and I will watch Sherlock and you can sit around and say GRR, THAT GUY IS A POMPUS ASS!!
Indeed :D Only I'd say Arse because I'm half English
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I'm guessing you don't like "House" either.
Actually I liked House a lot and I love Hugh Laurie, but I'm no good with medical dramas as brilliant as that show is. (My kink I will concede)
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Agreed?
Agreed :D
By the way you know we both Love Firefly right.
°...Well here I am.°
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Originally posted by THESOMNAMBULIST:
Fair enough you/I don't necessarily share the same sentiments regarding Castle and I'm not challenging that, but would you really disregard me if we met somewhere and it came out I watch Castle. Could you really decide there and then that, you'd be wasting your time talking to me and that I'd have nothing worthwhile to offer in conversation because by your standards I watch a dumb show...?
You prolly oughta know I married pretty much my opposite in every way, heh. THAT'S how much I value difference of opinion.
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