I was a HUGE fan of Firefly until last night's episode...

POSTED BY: FireflyClassAct
UPDATED: Friday, December 13, 2002 03:08
VIEWED: 20098
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FIREFLYCLASSACT

Saturday, December 7, 2002 3:59 PM

...and now I won't be watching the show again.

The scenes of torture and that guy taking a knife to the Captain's ear was really over the line.

I watch shows to be entertained. Watching helpless people being tortured and cut on is not entertainment to me.

Really a shame that Firefly had to get that far down in the gutter.

ALLRONIX

Saturday, December 7, 2002 4:15 PM

I've discussed this a lot on fanfic boards when the subject of torture-fic comes up. It was almost too much for me to stomach, too - but for a vastly different reason.

Being a writer, you sometimes have to look for aspects of human nature that are revolting. You have to find things in yourself that are revolting. And there is no luxury of running - not if you want to get the story out.

It seems as if the writer wanted to take these characters to the end of the line - the furthest they can go. Add a villian who is a sadistic creep...the only "in-character" option for that villian was to go full-out. VERY unpleasant, and I'm glad that these folks did not white-wash or gloss over the subject, both of which are too easy to do.

Co-founder of the Evil Writing Crew - causing hell, one hero at a time!

YEAHITSME

Saturday, December 7, 2002 4:27 PM

Ah come on! First the 23423423 complains about the "lesbian scene" by people who think it was gratuitous porn on the fox.com board and now this? Come on people why do you have to be offended so easily this isn't a show about flower and little baby rabbit who learn to share with his friends dammit if you want to see that kind of programmation go watch the Disney channel. This is a show about life and those thing happens in real life so if you want to continue to live in your beautiful world with no violence and no sex don't watch tv cause most TV shows are inspired by THE REAL WORLD where everything isn't always beautiful and happy all the time!

LIVINGIMPAIRED

Saturday, December 7, 2002 4:28 PM

While it was extreme, it wasn't gorey. The part where Mal's ear is cut off is out of focus. It's not as if the showed us a close up of them pulling out his intestines or anything. I personally thought the scene was tastefully done.

________________

Well, you were busy trying to get yourself lit on fire. It happens.

XERIAR

Saturday, December 7, 2002 4:31 PM

Considering what torture typically entails,
'War Games' was pretty tame. If you thought that
was disturbing, mayhap you should check out some of
the marvelous innovations of the Inquisition.

ESME

Saturday, December 7, 2002 4:36 PM

If you can't take the intensity, then go watch Friends, or some other milky drivel.

FIREFLYCLASSACT

Saturday, December 7, 2002 4:55 PM

It was a real shocker for a show that started off as pleasant as "Star Trek: The Next Generation" to *linger* over torture.

It would have been one thing for the camera to show both men tied up and then cut away and hear them scream,,, but it's quite another for the camera to stay on them while they writhe in pain.

The show went from "Star Trek: The Next Generation" to "The Godfather" in 2 minutes.

Again, I don't want to watch that crap!

...and to the person who who suggested that the Inquisition was worse,, I'm sure that and many other events were. No debate. I don't want to watch that either in the guise of *entertainment*.

Sad. The show permanently lost my family.

SNOWSPINNER

Saturday, December 7, 2002 5:16 PM

The gritty torture sequence is pretty much a Joss Whedon trademark... he doesn't cut the camera away from almost anything, in favor of holding the camera (Or the plot) on something until it gets its full effect. It was a little unusual that we got to see the weird "Show me your true self" thing actually enter Mal's body, instead of the usual shot, where we see the character's face, and know that horrible torture is going on below the camera shot (c.f. this week's Buffy, and also the Holtz/Angelus torture sequences from Angel last year).

I'm not really sure how they could have done the plot without showing the Mal/Walsh torture sequence the way that they did. A crucial aspect of the story was what Mal did to keep Walsh from cracking, and the way that Mal did this. You couldn't have taken that scene down in any way without losing the entire story.

Was it grusome? Yes. But Firefly is a drama, not a comedy. Dramas show unpleasant and depressing things sometimes. Are you going to turn off Othello because of the drawn out smothering scene? Is Oedipus out because you have to watch him walk around with his eyes gouged out? Are you going to turn off the Godfather because of Sonny's murder scene?

Actually, wait, you seem to have answered that already - you would turn off the Godfather in favor of a light and fluffy sci-fi show.

Truth be told, you probably weren't gonna be the liking a Joss Whedon show much in the first place then.

FIREFLYCLASSACT

Saturday, December 7, 2002 5:23 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Snowspinner:
I'm not really sure how they could have done the plot without showing the Mal/Walsh torture sequence the way that they did. A crucial aspect of the story was what Mal did to keep Walsh from cracking, and the way that Mal did this. You couldn't have taken that scene down in any way without losing the entire story.

That scene was not *crucial* to the plot of the show.

Quote:
Originally posted by Snowspinner:
Was it grusome? Yes. But Firefly is a drama, not a comedy. Dramas show unpleasant and depressing things sometimes.

...and I haven't complained one time about other unpleasant issues that were shown.

The issue here is not whether to show unpleasant things; but the **degree**.

Quote:
Originally posted by Snowspinner:
Truth be told, you probably weren't gonna be the liking a Joss Whedon show much in the first place then.

...and that's not true either.

We watched and loved every single episode and have been huge supporters.

YEAHITSME

Saturday, December 7, 2002 5:28 PM

The show was about how far you can push a man by torturing him that's why they kept refering to the book. So YES the torture scenes were crucial in the story and not just some gratuitous violence...

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