After the mandate, government-run health care would grow

POSTED BY: Niki2
UPDATED: Wednesday, April 4, 2012 11:18
VIEWED: 2244
PAGE 2 of 2

M52NICKERSON

Tuesday, April 3, 2012 9:39 PM

Quote:

---

Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
So if this goes through...

When the Repubs end up in charge...

and say..

"Here is the "Right and Responsibility Act of 20XX"

You have to buy a gun, and keep it loaded in your home.

The mandate is 3000 pages long, and you need to pass it to read it...

---

NOTIFY: Y  | REPLY  | REPLY WITH QUOTE  | PERMALINK  | TOP  | HOME

M52NICKERSON

Tuesday, April 3, 2012 9:42 PM

Quote:

---

Originally posted by AnthonyT:

Quote:

---

Originally posted by m52nickerson:

Quote:

---

Originally posted by AnthonyT:
Forcing a mandate to purchase and not providing an affordable public option is a terrible idea. They have to go together. One without the other is just going to injure the population.

---

That might be so if the law did not also include generous subsities to help people buy insurance. People who make up to 400% over the poverty level get some money to offset the cost of their insurance plans. So it is not as iff the mandates are going to make anyone buy a plan they can't afford.

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.

---

Hello,

I'm not worried that people won't be able to afford to buy Health Insurance Plans. I'm worried that the Health Insurance Plans people can afford- much like the PIP/PD car insurance that drivers are forced to buy- will be of little value.

The insurance I could afford this year is a rather miserable HRA that makes me very nervous about getting ill. I can afford the insurance. But I can't necessarily afford to use it (if that makes sense.)

--Anthony

_______________________________________________

Note to self: Mr. Raptor believes that women who want to control their reproductive processes are sluts.

Reference thread: http://fireflyfans.net/mthread.asp?b=18&t=51196

Never forget what this man is. You keep forgiving him his trespasses and speak to him as though he is a reasonable human being. You keep forgetting the things he's advocated. If you respond to this man again, you are being foolish.

---

NOTIFY: Y  | REPLY  | REPLY WITH QUOTE  | PERMALINK  | TOP  | HOME

WULFENSTAR

Tuesday, April 3, 2012 9:56 PM

"If they uphold the mandate it is likely they will recognize the uniqueness of health care and not allow the law to be a slippery slope. Meaning a GOP act as such would be unconstitutional while the health insurance mandate would be."

I'm hearing a lot of IF off this plan.

Leave party bullshit behind and we can all see that ObamaCare is a government grab at full power over our lives.

Never. In. Life.

Some bureaucrat telling me what I must buy? I don't care the reason for it. I don't care why. YOU DON'T HAVE THE RIGHT.



"Hope is a good thing, maybe the best of things, and no good thing ever dies"

NOTIFY: Y  | REPLY  | REPLY WITH QUOTE  | PERMALINK  | TOP  | HOME

M52NICKERSON

Wednesday, April 4, 2012 1:11 AM

I'm hearing a lot of IF off this plan.

Leave party bullshit behind and we can all see that ObamaCare is a government grab at full power over our lives.

Never. In. Life.

Some bureaucrat telling me what I must buy? I don't care the reason for it. I don't care why. YOU DON'T HAVE THE RIGHT.

NOTIFY: Y  | REPLY  | REPLY WITH QUOTE  | PERMALINK  | TOP  | HOME

FREMDFIRMA

Wednesday, April 4, 2012 2:20 AM

Having personal and intimate experience with the situation described here, thanks to my coverage provider bailing out on me, despite having been paid thank you very much, and the Maryland insurance commissioner letting them do so without penalty, I can tell you it's a special kind of hell no human being should experience...

Sure, they'll stablize just enough to keep you (barely) alive, and then dump your ass as quick as possible, and that *WILL* kill you, just not as quickly - that I survived at all is still considered something of a miracle possible only due to the fact that I seem to be really, seriously hard to kill and am capable of apalling ruthlessness when pushed, and even that only barely shimmed me by cause that final hearing I was literally hours from deaths doorstep and had to be carried in on a jury-rigged stretcher.

Hell, them docs were so convinced I was gonna die more than a few of em (some of whom really did think it was the most merciful option) were trying to HELP IT ALONG, just not overtly, and for a fact you can't even depend on emergency level case since at one point I was ordered to the ER *by my lawyer* only to have them pitch me out cause it wasn't IMMEDIATELY (minutes) life-threatening, despite being actually (days) life-threatening, during the lead-up to that hearing, which mind you took some serious political wrangling to even bring about.

Trust me, fighting a legal nightmare of battles from a deathbed in the ghetto is a whole nother level of hell, and I had to focus on those which'd keep me alive over all, which meant them goddamn insurance companies got a clean walkaway for this...

Which is why my opinion on it is what it is - my issue with this and similar acts is that they lack enough teeth, what you gonna DO when it comes to cases and instead of covering you, the provider laughs in your face, and neither you nor anyone else has both the will and means to force them to hold to the contract ?
Sure as hell if yer half-dead and struggling just to survive they can quite easily ignore you, while using all that money they ground out of you to protect their profits FROM YOU - any "insurance" that runs on a for-profit model dooms its clients for this very reason, cause the whole POINT is to AVOID ever holding up their end of the bargain, and they got years of financial and political manipulation in place to make that ever easier - look at car insurance, you're forced to pay and pay and pay and pay for something YOU DON'T DARE EVER USE... *AND* should you try, there's a damn good chance you'll STILL wind up swingin, AND have your rates jacked, is this really the model we wanna work with here ?

So as it stands forcing people to pour money down a rathole to providers who cannot be trusted, cannot be forced to actually stand to the agreement, is a scam and a sham.
I would rather expand the existing medicare infrastructure to cover everyone with a basic minimum standard, with the option to purchase coverage over and above that if they prefer, which is doable, workable, much CHEAPER, and doesn't rely on the fantastical notion of good behavior from some of the scummiest, most untrustworthy motherfuckers on the planet, those being politicians and insurance providers, respectively.

So... NO.

-Frem

I do not serve the Blind God.

NOTIFY: N  | REPLY  | REPLY WITH QUOTE  | PERMALINK  | TOP  | HOME

NIKI2

Wednesday, April 4, 2012 3:47 AM

I was going to say "fascinating" about the trend of posts here, but it's not that interesting.

I just noticed that some people are carrying on a perfectly reasonable debate on the issue, and periodically Wulf pops in with something so stupid and outrageous it doesn't even belong in the conversation. I realize he has no concept of the fact that he's paying an "individual mandate" right now, insofar as having to support people who get their healthcare from the ER via his taxes and medical costs, so it's not surprising he can't participate in the debate...if he even knows what the word means.

I suppose for me the bottom line is I want Obamacare to stay, because it IS that first step, and I see some pretty awful stuff before anyone else tries again if it's killed. I see a lot of people suffering AND dying in the meantime.

I hope if it survives then the quality of health care it provides is worth it. If it's not great, does that make it worse than going to the ER when you are on death's door or just can't take the pain anymore, because the ER is your ONLY option?