"Racism is dead in America." Bullshit

POSTED BY: Niki2
UPDATED: Sunday, August 30, 2026 19:02
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NIKI2

Friday, March 23, 2012 8:40 PM

KWICKO

Friday, March 23, 2012 8:42 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Wulfenstar:

I get a kick when idiots with no history, no experience, no knowledge, try to talk like they know what is going on.

This is something you have no intelligence on. Keep to talking about Apple, and niche music, hipster.

Stick to what you know, and stop making a fool of yourself.

Wulfie, now you've finally figured out why I've been laughing at you for all these years. You're a dolt, a mere child. You know nothing of the world, and very little of your own self, but you are hell-bent on teaching us a lesson, aren't you?

You know the difference between you and Zimmerman? A few hundred miles of geography. That's it. You're him, he's you, and you'd actually LOVE to be in his shoes and finally have lived out your wet dream of getting to blow one of "them" away.

You've become the caricature, the Internet Tough Guy™, and you just can't wait to show us all how "street" you really are. You think you're the only one here who's ever been robbed, mugged, beaten, shot at, burglarized, or attacked? You're not. You're just the only one who can't let it go.

Climb down off your cross, Wulfie, my child. Tear down the cross, use the wood to build a bridge, and then GET THE FUCK OVER IT.

WULFENSTAR

Friday, March 23, 2012 8:59 PM

You are on your own.

"Hope is a good thing, maybe the best of things, and no good thing ever dies"

KWICKO

Friday, March 23, 2012 9:00 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
The issues here are not racism, or gun-control, or stand-your-ground laws.

The issue is that there is a perception that a certain group (or groups) are dangerous. For the most part, its earned... but its also cultivated.

Then, thrown into the mix, is the idea that "clothes make the man". Combine the 2, a perceived dangerous group, in clothing that promotes said image of savagery...

along with a man who is determined to keep his area safe...

and this is what happens.

I won't pretend things like this won't happen in the future.... but a solution will require a shift in culture of said group.

Culture X needs to radically alter their behavior, and goals.

Is "Culture X" the gun-happy cowboys like Zimmerman?

Quote:

I wonder what would have happened, if it had been an asian kid. Asians are not known as being an overtly dangerous group.

Obviously you have never been to Chinatown, or heard of the Yakuza.

Quote:

Now, if the kid was asian, and wearing gangster gear (Fubu, hoodie, Tims... whatever) would this have turned out the same? It might have.

Its what I was talking about before. Stereotypes don't just happen. Sometimes its made up to make one group feel superior to the other...

and other times its "earned" in that enough of "outsiders" have observed certain behaviors by a group that it can be reasonably given.

So you would agree that the gun-crazy vigilante stereotype isn't an unwarranted one, especially in this case, right?

Quote:

The answer here might simply be that this kid, being part of certain group through no fault of his own (birth), wearing clothing associated with the negative steretypes of said group, ran afoul of another man, who was bound and determined to keep his area safe from the negatives of said group.

In other words, this kid was a victim of the negative aspects (both perceived and vetted) of his grouping. Wearing clothing that added to said negative view.

Yes, Zimmerman's determination to wear - and USE - a gun certainly seems to have been key in this situation. Had he just not been so gung-ho on wanting to look the part of his "gang" that he affiliates with, none of this would have happened.

Quote:

Maybe the group should work to change its perception by the other groups living with and near it.

... by putting down their guns for a bit, no doubt.

Quote:

Yes, we are all individuals. As individuals we can be awesome. However, we are each judged daily... by the clothes we wear, our hairstyle, the way we walk, the way we talk,

add to that, the things we cannot change.

So, you are grouped especially by the things you cannot change. Maybe, you should work towards promoting a good image of said group.

How will you promote a good image of gunbunnies, Wulfie?

Quote:

Before you jump on me, I'm not saying its this kids fault for being shot. Far from it. I'm pointing out that there were aspects outside of him, that helped lead to this. He got caught up in them with tragic results.

No, you really pretty much ARE saying that it's his own fault. You've said as much, saying he wanted to look like a certain image, and that got him shot. You'll blame every single thing on Earth EXCEPT the guy with the gun. And you're too much a coward to even face that fact about yourself.

KWICKO

Friday, March 23, 2012 9:02 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
You are on your own.

Whew - THAT is a relief! For a second there, I thought you were going to say you were on my side! Trust me, boy - I definitely don't need you on (or anywhere near, or within 500 miles of) my side.

KWICKO

Friday, March 23, 2012 9:08 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by AnthonyT:
Quote:
I take offense to that.

Hello,

I also found it offensive.

Quote:
"cultures of the victims"? Explain that.

In this case, the victims are those who are murdered because of the gross generalizations you mention. You put the onus of culture change on them, so that they are no longer murdered because of what people assume about them.

Quote:
Heres a test. If you dress up as a police officer, would you be surprised if people thought of you as law-enforcement?

What an interesting leap. Obviously if I dress in a manner proscribed to a profession, I will be determined to be of that profession. The iconic nature of police uniforms is actually protected by law in some places.

Quote:
Same thing. Clothing does invoke perception.

Yes, my wife's beloved hoodies, by your example, mark her as a gangsta who may be pre-emptively murdered by some shlub trying to protect his neighborhood.

Meanwhile the culture of gun-toting neighborhood commandos is given a pass for jumping to conclusions about people due to the color of their skin and choice of clothing.

Where is the talk about the culture of the aggressor? The culture of might-makes-right, assumptions are warranted, I am a yahoo cowboy, and God can sort em out?

If that culture changed, then all the other cultures and people who enjoy types of fashion would be safe. Including my poor wife and her gangsta hoodie.

--Anthony

_______________________________________________

Note to self: Mr. Raptor believes that women who want to control their reproductive processes are sluts.

Reference thread: http://fireflyfans.net/mthread.asp?b=18&t=51196

Never forget what this man is. You keep forgiving him his trespasses and speak to him as though he is a reasonable human being. You keep forgetting the things he's advocated. If you respond to this man again, you are being foolish.

Oh, darn - Anthony beat me to all the salient points again!

Good on you, Anthony!

KWICKO

Friday, March 23, 2012 9:13 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by kpo:
Quote:
There was no stalking. Zimmerman had the same right as Martin to be in that place.

There was no stalking?? What planet are you living on? Zimmerman said by his own account that he stalked Martin.

Quote:
There was no prohibition for Zimmerman following Martin.

Sure, but if you stalk somebody in the dark they have a right to feel threatened and to protect themselves with force under Florida self-defence laws.

Quote:
What was Martin's justification for hitting Zimmerman?

See above. By the way, I love how you've filled in all the blanks in this case yourself. You've established that it was Martin who attacked Zimmerman have you? Based on what?

It's not personal. It's just war.

^^^ Bingo to all of this.

Troll is introducing "facts" into evidence that have no basis in reality, and have not been established in any way.

For all we know, Zimmerman is the aggressor here, and Martin was defending himself against him, for which he was then murdered for trying to fend off an attacker.

Yet troll seems perfectly willing to assume as fact the idea that it must have been the black kid who was attacking. Apparently in TrollWorld, that's how they do...

MAGONSDAUGHTER

Friday, March 23, 2012 9:31 PM

Yeah, this case is awful and that law sounds dangerous. Armed neighborhood watch people sound wrong. The idea of gated communities makes me shudder. Pre emptive justice is just wrong.

There is just so much wrong here.

KWICKO

Friday, March 23, 2012 10:56 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by HKCavalier:
So, black teenagers should stop wearing hoodies. The problem is this: how do gangsters dress? LIKE YOUNG PEOPLE, YOUNG PEOPLE WHO DON'T HAVE A LOT OF MONEY. Was Martin wearing colors, bandanas, anything that would actually distinguish him as a gang member??? Not on your life.

It's not the clothing that makes white folks think "gangster," it's black people in the clothing. Wolf wants black people to dress like Urkle or Bill Cosby so as not to get shot at. This is disgusting. And women who wear a dress that falls more than a hand's width above the knee are asking to be raped. It's the same specious logic. And so, because a significant number of violent bastards in our culture think this way, then their multitudinous potential victims should damn well act accordingly or be branded stupid and "asking for it?"

What in god's name is the readily available, cheap and practical alternative to the hoodie? Something, btw, anyone who shops at Old Navy--a notorious gang supply house--will own. So, okay, it's not racism, it's class and culture war. So, now if it isn't the race of the victim, it's the fact that the victim can't afford a $150 rain jacket from REI.

Pizmo, any argument that proceeds from the premise, "This is HOW things are" can and will be employed by the ruling class to keep the underclass "WHERE they are." It's a logical fallacy, it's an argument from authority (heh). The argument that black teenagers should change the way they dress to avoid getting shot at by random "good citizens" serves no one but those who would rather not be held accountable for their atrocious attacks on black teenagers. It doesn't serve you or me. And it doesn't serve Trayvon Martin's family.

HKCavalier

Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.

Well said, HKC. I agree with every word of this.

KWICKO

Friday, March 23, 2012 10:58 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by AnthonyT:
Quote:
Your statement is as intelligent as saying, "You can't judge a shark by the behavior of its species. So what if a shark has teeth that bite, and it shows what is known to be aggressive behavior! Turn you back to it and swim away. Being bitten is better than being cautious and acting in your own self-defense."

Hello,

You are wrong. Once again you create a framework for your argument that has no basis on the discussion. Your statement has massive logical fallacies.

Your logic is as follows: Gangsters are violent people who wear hoodies.

Hence: Everyone who wears hoodies is a violent gangster.

Which is not only logically incorrect, but OBSERVABLY incorrect as well. We all know that this same clothing is sold to gangsters and non-gangsters alike. Yet you still claim it is a correct assumption to assume "Person dressed X is obviously a gangster and I have to protect myself from their aggression or crime."

In fact, the problem is twofold. Not only are illogic leaps being made to reach conclusions which are observably false in many instances, but illogical responses are being made based on these illogical leaps. Even if your twisted thinking assigns a twisted identity to someone based on appearance, to then pursue escalation behavior with that person is ludicrous.

The problem isn't perception, it's laziness. This is because while you may have observed gangstas with hoodies, you have also observed non-gangstas with hoodies. But delving deeper is too much work, so it's easier to just slap the label on across the board. Then you excuse the behavior with, "It's just the way things are" thereby absolving yourself of any responsibility to change.

THEN after absolving yourself of such responsibility, YOU ACTUALLY ASSIGN THAT RESPONSIBILITY TO OTHERS!

"They" should change so that you can continue to make your lazy assumptions. "You" can enjoy life the way it is.

Here's the way life really is. "They" aren't all the same. "You" can't be bothered. But you sure want to justify bothering "Them."

--Anthony

_______________________________________________

Note to self: Mr. Raptor believes that women who want to control their reproductive processes are sluts.

Reference thread: http://fireflyfans.net/mthread.asp?b=18&t=51196

Never forget what this man is. You keep forgiving him his trespasses and speak to him as though he is a reasonable human being. You keep forgetting the things he's advocated. If you respond to this man again, you are being foolish.

Quick test for Wulfie:

Gangster? Or Superbowl-winning NFL coach?

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