Real World Event Discussions

"Racism is dead in America." Bullshit

POSTED BY: Niki2
UPDATED: Sunday, August 30, 2026 19:02
VIEWED: 28755
PAGE 15 of 27

ANTHONYT

Thursday, March 22, 2012 9:26 PM

Quote:
I was trying to point out how this could have been averted

Hello,

Yes, your solution is telling.

Here, I paraphrase:

Wulf Solution: "All the people we make assumptions about need to change so that we stop making assumptions about them and hurting them."

Correct Solution: "We need to stop making assumptions about people and using those assumptions to hurt them."

Wulf Response: "You can't change people, man, that's just the way it is. But all those other people, the one's we're hurting? Yeah, THEY need to change."

People can't change, This is the way things are, and also, Those people need to change.

Personal responsibility is a concept that only seems to flow in convenient directions. A young man wants to wear 'gangsta' clothes? He needs to change. Another man wants to hunt down people in 'gangsta' clothes? He's just making reasonable assumptions. It's the way of the world.

--Anthony

_______________________________________________

Note to self: Mr. Raptor believes that women who want to control their reproductive processes are sluts.

Reference thread: http://fireflyfans.net/mthread.asp?b=18&t=51196

Never forget what this man is. You keep forgiving him his trespasses and speak to him as though he is a reasonable human being. You keep forgetting the things he's advocated. If you respond to this man again, you are being foolish.

RIONAEIRE

Thursday, March 22, 2012 9:28 PM

I agree with Niki, it would be awful if this wasn't investigated any further, there's lots of stuff that needs looked into. From what I know in my state, if someone kills someone in self defense its looked into to check it out. Unfortunately there are situations where the self defense killing was justified and the person who killed still gets put in jail. :( This makes me really upset. But the Zimmerman and Martin case doesn't look like that, there's enough suspicious info here that not investigating would be downright criminal.

Wulf I see what you're saying about how sometimes steriotypes come from somewhere, but after that you totally lose me.

Trayvon sounds like ,gasp, a normal kid, it sounds like he was scared of Zimmerman too, I'd be scared if some bigger guy was following me around in the dark, I can't blame him for being frightened. I feel pretty bad for his family and his girlfriend.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

NIKI2

Thursday, March 22, 2012 9:51 PM

Quote:
Niki, you had pikes ready and set to put this guys head on... when he was white....

now you've backed off that, and are trying a different tact.

Jezus, Wulf, you're amazing. I assume you haven't noticed that, as further facts came to light, I've first withheld judgment and, now that there are many more facts, I'm condemning Zimmerman? According to this I've "backed off"?? I've heard and read enough to give me serious cause to question this situation and at this point to believe Zimmerman is a loose cannon who appointed himself "chief" and wrongly killed a young man who was doing nothing. How is that backing off? And what "tact" (I think you mean "tack") am I using? Posting quotes from cites which have made me come to believe as I do? Gawd, I weep for your baby, having a father like you. If you keep it up, those who chastized us for how we feel about you will in short order understand WHY we do.

Cave:

Quote:
Was Zimmerman approaching Martin with a gun out?

Have you proof he wasn't?

Quote:
Zimmerman had the same right to be in that place as Martin

Martin had the same right to be in that place as Zimmerman, and he wasn't bothering Zimmerman.

Quote:
His neighbors had appointed him to the community watch

No. He appointed HIMSELF "neighborhood watch captain":

Quote:
When the homeowners association wanted to start a neighborhood watch, only one man stepped up: George Zimmerman

AND he was acting contrary to every rule of neighborhood watch, by pursuing someone rather than WATCHING, by carrying a concealed weapon and by accosting Martin.

Quote:
Zimmerman's injuries do back up a justification for use of force.

No, they don't. Has anyone mentioned any injuries Martin had? Surely if there was an altercation, NEITHER could get off without injuries, so how do Zimmerman's injuries prove he didn't hit Martin first?

Quote:
As long as the gun is holstered

Was it? Do you have proof?

Quote:
But from an eyewitness.... we know that Martin battered Zimmerman

You want witnesses?

Quote:
....witness Mary Cutcher ... said police only took a two or three sentence statement from her. Cutcher said a cry for help got her attention on the day Trayvon Martin was shot and killed in her backyard by Zimmerman.

Cutcher said it was short, and police never questioned her in detail until after she repeatedly reached out to them.

"Blew us off, and I called him back again and I said, "I know this was not self-defense. There was no punching, no hitting going on at the time, no wrestling,'" Cutcher said.

"We said, 'Is everything OK? And he just looked at us. Selma [another witness] asked him again, 'What's up, what's going on, everything OK? And he just said, 'Call the police,' kind of nonchalantly, kind of like, 'Leave me alone,' '' Cutcher said. http://www.wftv.com/news/news/witness-sanford-police-blew-us-teen-slay
ing/nLSqk/

Quote:
A police officer “corrected” a key witness. “The officer told the witness, a long-time teacher, it was Zimmerman who cried for help, said the witness. ABC News has spoken to the teacher and she confirmed that the officer corrected her when she said she heard the teenager shout for help.” [ABC News] http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2012/03/18/446768/what-everyone-shoul
d-know-about-about-trayvon-martin-1995-2012/

Quote:
Mary Cutcher describes what she witnessed that night.
"And at the time that we heard the whining and then the gunshot, we did not hear any wrestling, no punching, no fighting, nothing to make it sound like there was a fight," Cutcher said to Anderson Cooper.
Cutcher told Cooper that she does not believe the Zimmerman acted in self-defense.
"Originally, I didn't believe it was self-defense because of what we saw when we walked out on the porch. If it was se

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OONJERAH

Thursday, March 22, 2012 10:13 PM

Quote Oonjerah: "Sponsors of Florida ‘Stand Your Ground’ law say George
Zimmerman should be arrested" :> http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/trayvon-martin-case-sponsors-
florida-stand-ground-law-george-zimmerman-arrested-article-1.1048164

"The guy lost his defense right then," Peaden told the Herald.
"When he said, 'I'm following him,' he lost his defense."

Former state Sen. Durell Peaden and current state Rep. Dennis Baxley said
the law they wrote in 2005, which allows someone who feels threatened to
"meet force with force" without backing down first, was being misapplied
in the shooting death of the 17-year-old, the Miami Herald reported.

"They got the goods on him. They need to prosecute whoever shot the kid,"
Peaden, a Republican, told the Herald. "He has no protection under my law."

Oonj: All things considered, I consider Zimmerman indefensible. Color him to be arrested soon.

WULFENSTAR

Thursday, March 22, 2012 10:18 PM

Being arrested doesn't mean you are guilty... or wrong.

In this case, its a bunch of snakes, trying to hide under a rock.

"Hope is a good thing, maybe the best of things, and no good thing ever dies"

OONJERAH

Thursday, March 22, 2012 10:22 PM

BTW, I wear a hoodie almost every day in cool weather. But I don't
pull the hood up unless it's colder.

I didn't realize that I look like a gangsta's moll. No one told me. :(

So is this Hoodie = Gangsta perception preDOMinant in the 49 Other States
but not sunny, sane California?

If I do get shot while wearing my hoodie, will someone please inform
my next of kin that I was asking for it?

I also have not started packing a gun whenever I go shopping.
(I'm always behind the times!)

WULFENSTAR

Thursday, March 22, 2012 10:29 PM

Pearles before Swine at this point... hoodies? In all of this? THATS what you choose to seize on?

"Hope is a good thing, maybe the best of things, and no good thing ever dies"

ANTHONYT

Thursday, March 22, 2012 10:56 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
Pearles before Swine at this point... hoodies? In all of this? THATS what you choose to seize on?

"Hope is a good thing, maybe the best of things, and no good thing ever dies"

Hello,

Hoodies are what you seized upon, Wulf. Amongst other clothes. You also said the perception of Asians are that they are not as violent as Black people, UNLESS they wear particular clothes. And you also said that these 'groups' need to work to improve their public perception to avoid these situations.

It was pretty clear what these 'groups' were. And so I consider you a pretty voiciferous 'groupist.' Some people keep their 'groupist' tendencies under wraps, but you are more the loud and proud variety. You not only advocate treating people according to their 'group,' you claim this is the natural state of being. If these 'groups' want to stop having 'groupist' actions taken against them, they need to do some better P.R. work.

--Anthony

_______________________________________________

Note to self: Mr. Raptor believes that women who want to control their reproductive processes are sluts.

Reference thread: http://fireflyfans.net/mthread.asp?b=18&t=51196

Never forget what this man is. You keep forgiving him his trespasses and speak to him as though he is a reasonable human being. You keep forgetting the things he's advocated. If you respond to this man again, you are being foolish.

NIKI2

Thursday, March 22, 2012 11:17 PM

Oonj:

--California is not sane (I take offense at the very suggestion!)

--Maybe people just don't wear hoodies as much because of the weather here? Or maybe hoodies identifying gangstas is an East Coast thing?

--The "gangsta" mode of clothing here is usually pants worn down below the crotch, which kinda destroys the intent, 'cuz everyone just laughs at their efforts to walk. Black, White, Yellow, Purple and Green people wear them that way. And yes, some of them ARE gangers.

--I believe "prosecute" IS much better than "arrest": Prosecute the bastard!

--If the guys who WROTE the law think he should be prosecuted, I have no argument.

ETA: Ditto Anthony; he nailed it.
ETA: Wulf, enjoy your rock. If it ever gets too cold under there, you could always rejoin the human race. We won't mind.

OONJERAH

Thursday, March 22, 2012 11:22 PM

I kinda expected this thread to lull out for a few days while we
all wait for the shoe to drop in Florida. But instead, it went to
stereotypes. Some folks do modify their behavior accordingly.

Commentary: Why black parents give their sons a 'don't' list - by Jonathan Capehart =>
http://www.palmbeachpost.com/opinion/commentary/commentary-why-black-p
arents-give-their-sons-a-2250254.html

• "Don't run in public." Lest someone think you're suspicious.
• "Don't run while carrying anything in your hands." Lest someone think you stole something.
• "Don't talk back to the police." Lest you give them a reason to take you to jail or worse.

ETA: But, in the words of Mystique, "We shouldn't have to."