You believe Muslims are scary, dangerous people
POSTED BY: AnthonyT
UPDATED: Wednesday, August 14, 2024 17:06
VIEWED: 9833
PAGE 4 of 14
I think he's angry about his case, and is venting.
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I like to think a Reformation is not only possible, but inevitable.
I disagree, but I hope you're right.
The only hope I see is in a rise in other moderating forces, such as democracy, prosperity and of course, peace (especially in the Israeli/Palestinian conflict).
It's not personal. It's just war.
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Go to war with who? The entire Islamic world? I think we need a whole BUNCH of new wars, let's wipe 'em out: "Nuke 'em. Nuke 'em one and all" to quote my husband (in jest). Sounds like it's not jest to some here...and too many in our government.
Yeah, let's have World War III, sounds good to me. THAT would certainly solve the "Muslim Problem".
I believe Evangelical extremists are scary, dangerous people, and I CAN do something about that--so can you, so can all of us. I believe Muslim extremists are scary, dangerous people, and if any of them do anything here, I'll stand up, I'll help anyone fighting them. But that doesn't mean I think ALL Muslims or ALL Evangelicals are scary and dangerous or that I'm willing to hate them all.
As for "religion of peace" said in snarky tone, I'll give you back Christianity as "That lovely religion of peace" which is attacking our citizens right now, right here in America, and which will become bolder and bolder if not stopped. Who ever believed doctors would be assassinated, women would be forceably "raped" with instruments, Catholicism and Mormonism would be called CULTS publicly? Oh, and hey, who ever would have believed that legally elected officials would be put aside, ALL elected officials, and replaced by a one-man "government" who could do exactly as he chose? That's trouble has already HAPPENED, Trouble right here in River City, with a capital "T", and that rhymes with "P" and that stands for pool! (couldn't resist)
That song, by the way, starts out "Well, either you're closing your eyes to a situation you do not wish to acknowledge or you are not aware of the caliber of disaster indicated". I give you religious oppression, religious extremism, that's happening right here in our own country, about which you who are focused on religious extremists thousands of miles away are hiding your heads in the sand!
And obviously, Anthony, I'm not of a mind with him, and not at ALL of a mind to go to war. How about we start knocking on our own religious-extremists-churches doors first? It would end in war, at least!
Times will definitely change, other powers will rise...hey, how about China taking over America, so religion ITSELF is banned? About as realistic as Muslim countries banding together to take over America and force Islam on us, isn't it?
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Originally posted by AnthonyT:
So, if your question is, "Why do I have a special interest in the Muslim situation?" The answer is, "People often say bad things about Muslims, but don't suggest a course of action."
So?
Perhaps these people don't have a course of action in mind, aside from "watch out for these people, since quite a number of them seem willing to kill anyone who offends their religious beliefs."
Really not much we can do about courts in Iran condemning folks to death for converting from Islam to Christianity. Doesn't mean we shouldn't be appalled at such actions.
Not much we can do about the Sunni's in Iraq setting off car bombs outside Shia schools. Doesn't mean we shouldn't look with disgust upon the folks who would specifically target children.
Not much we can do about a family in Afghanistan killing a daughter to preserve their "honor", with the local religious authorities approval. Doesn't mean we shouldn't question the morality of such actions.
Just because you don't have an answer to a problem doesn't mean it's not a problem, or that it shouldn't be pointed out.
In the U.S. where our laws do apply, we can move to convince leaders in the Muslim community to stand up against "honor" killings, prosecute the family members involved in such killings to the fullest extent of the law, and file accessory charges against religious leaders who aided or encouraged such actions.
"Keep the Shiny side up"
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So? Perhaps these people don't have a course of action in mind, aside from "watch out for these people, since quite a number of them seem willing to kill anyone who offends their religious beliefs."
Perhaps they don't have anything in mind. That's why I'm asking. To find out. It's like when someone says, "I don't want a nuclear Iran" and I say, "Uh huh. What do you suggest?" Maybe they suggest nothing. Maybe they suggest something. The conversation is shaped thusly.
I already have one response calling for War. That's an interesting conversation starter, and very different from, "Watch out for these people, since quite a number of them seem willing to kill anyone who offends their religious beliefs."
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Really not much we can do about courts in Iran condemning folks to death for converting from Islam to Christianity. Doesn't mean we shouldn't be appalled at such actions.
In addition to the horrors I see every day in my homeland, I have noticed that much of the world is consumed by a litany of reprehensible activity the likes of which would scar the mind and tear the heart if dwelled upon. Some of this activity happens in Muslim countries, and it is terrible. But there IS something we can do. Several somethings. See above. We can speak against the horrors, aid insurgents, and wage wars. A wide variety of proposed activity.
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Not much we can do about the Sunni's in Iraq setting off car bombs outside Shia schools. Doesn't mean we shouldn't look with disgust upon the folks who would specifically target children.
It is disgusting wherever it happens. But again, we already have proposals about what to do!
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Not much we can do about a family in Afghanistan killing a daughter to preserve their "honor", with the local religious authorities approval. Doesn't mean we shouldn't question the morality of such actions.
I join you in finding such actions of questionable moral content. But again, there IS something we can do.
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Just because you don't have an answer to a problem doesn't mean it's not a problem, or that it shouldn't be pointed out.
That's a fine observation. I have observed that some people who point out problems aren't merely recoiling in horror, but priming for action or suggesting a philosophy. I find some actions and philosophies worthy of analysis and discussion. So I ask. Are you just observing the unceasing stream of human misery and pain aloud... or are you suggesting something?
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In the U.S. where our laws do apply, we can move to convince leaders in the Muslim community to stand up against "honor" killings, prosecute the family members involved in such killings to the fullest extent of the law, and file accessory charges against religious leaders who aided or encouraged such actions.
Yes! We can do these things, and have actually done so before. I remember the Manson case in particular as being poignant to your statement.
So, you propose using our laws to prosecute crimes whenever they occur, and to discourage their repetition? That's an idea I can get on board with. Thank you for sharing.
--Anthony
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"In every war, the state enacts a tax of freedom upon the citizenry. The unspoken promise is that the tax shall be revoked at war's end. Endless war holds no such promise. Hence, Eternal War is Eternal Slavery." --Admiral Robert J. Henner
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Amazing the selective memory people have.
Okay, there's ALREADY a front in Afghanistan currently pulling that stunt, the NFA (New Fedayeen Army), which is basically a pack of female terrorists using the same tactics, which no one cottoned on to immediately cause they set it up so the male factions would suspect each other, many of the so-called Burkha Bombings come from this source, and while I might have had sympathy for them given that the NFA is comprised of women - their intentions are not laudable in that all they really seem to want is to switch roles and continue the oppression with them on top.
Small that they are, they'd not be a problem if SOMEONE wasn't providing them with military hardware, but in comparison to the rest of the disaster that country has become they're but a mere pinprick.
Anyways, it's a damn bad idea and in the end solves nothing.
Which is why I support RAWA even though that puts me at some risk since I figure eventually the State Dept is going to label them "terrorists" as a sop to whichever pack of fundamentalist pricks we're supporting at the time in exchange for looting their country and fueling the war machine.
Revolutionary Association of the Women of Afghanistan (RAWA)
http://www.rawa.org/
Of course, no one ever seems to wanna talk about that, and those few that do, well, talk is cheap.
How you can help
http://www.rawa.org/help.htm
Amazon Requirements List
http://www.amazon.com/gp/registry/wishlist/1FQ7ZTOVB3XI3/ref=wl_web
Now watch this thread dissappear to the bottom, under a flood of more manufactured outrage, or this post be completely as ignored as every other time I have brought this up.
-Frem
I do not serve the Blind God.
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Hello,
I just finished reading up on RAWA on wikipedia. If anyone wants to empower change and help improve the treatment of women in Afghanistan, RAWA would appear to be a worthy organization to support.
Do you know of similar organizations in other Muslim countries, Frem?
--Anthony
_______________________________________________
"In every war, the state enacts a tax of freedom upon the citizenry. The unspoken promise is that the tax shall be revoked at war's end. Endless war holds no such promise. Hence, Eternal War is Eternal Slavery." --Admiral Robert J. Henner
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Man, I don't know what's up with other atheists. I mean, sure, I harassed the churchy kids while I was in high school, but then I realized it was kind of silly to be all "I'm right, blah blah blah, even though there's no evidence one way or another."
Now I mostly just terminate the logic strands whenever someone brings up...
Huh. I'm not sure how to describe it. Anyway.
It is time for candy.
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Originally posted by Hero:
Kids. They have two kids and in any divorce or seperation Saudi law gives him custody and she has no standing to contest it.
Yes, the kids are in America, however, the US is bound by the international child custody treaties which reserves jurisdiction on child custody issues to the home country.
I wonder at this, but I would have to know more about the case. If the children are in America, and the family live in America, then they would be subject to American law, unless they reside in the embassy, in which case Saudi law would have jurisdiction.
Is Saudi Arabia a signatory of the Hague Convention? I don't believe it is, in which case, you have nothing to compel you to recognise their laws regarding custody.
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Here is what a saw. A thoughtful and intelligent young woman seeking an advanced degree in statitstics who was married to an abusive, unemployed pig.
I see stuff like that every day of my working life. And I see the abusive pig paying big shot lawyers to gain the upper hand and the abused spouse then having to deal with the abuser endlessly while she hands over the children so they can spend time with their father. Welcome to the world of family law in a progressive, secular western nation.
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Regardless of its other benefits, that is the face of Islam and until they can change that aspect of their culture...their culture and its supporting religeon must and should be opposed.
Islam has a cancer and its time to either get the knife and do some hard cutting or else put the old fella out of its misery. It took a Civil War to rid America of its own cancer and the reformation to cut the worst abuse out of Christianity. Some Muslim fella (or woman) needs to walk up to her local mosque and hammer reform right into the front door.
So the path seems clear. You can continue to wage expensive wars with Muslim nations to force them to abandon their religion of choice and replace it with christianity or secularism. Good luck with that one. Secondly you can prevent muslims in your country from practising their faith, and forcing them to adopt christianity or secular lifestyles, which is probably unconstitutional, but as you sound like a raving great fascist, I'm sure that doesn't bother you.
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Personal Responsibility has raised its usually lazy head here, so I must leave for a bit.
I do have a sound answer to the Islamic problem, one that does not involve wars or hate.
In the past, I have seen a news commentator in Egypt I think it was. His idea was that the Arab world needs
separation of church and state. The main risk there is to the commentator himself. This would be the slow
but proper way to make the changes: self-determination.
I'll try to find & post something about this when I get back.
"All I suggest is a man hears what he wants to hear, and disregards the rest" ~Paul Simon
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This would be the slow but proper way to make the changes: self-determination.
Hello,
I agree, the evolution of society must have an internal impetus. It is only rarely able to be imposed from outside, and then only at staggering cost- a combination of money, blood, and moral outrages.
--Anthony
_______________________________________________
"In every war, the state enacts a tax of freedom upon the citizenry. The unspoken promise is that the tax shall be revoked at war's end. Endless war holds no such promise. Hence, Eternal War is Eternal Slavery." --Admiral Robert J. Henner
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