Real World Event Discussions

Iran threatens Europe

POSTED BY: pizmobeach
UPDATED: Tuesday, June 2, 2026 17:14
VIEWED: 8095
PAGE 10 of 11

NIKI2

Saturday, February 18, 2012 4:11 PM

Yes, desertification, etc., but wasn't that done long before, like VERY long before, so that having exportable sources of income had been rendered impossible? Just guessing here...

Anthony, I try to see things in perspective. If virtually ANY of the Republicans (except Paul) were in power, we'd still be in Iraq--remember how they've been screaming about that? We'd have built up even more in Afghanistan, would have gone to war in Libya, have attacked Iran, might even be in Syria now, and wouldn't have gotten bin Laden. All you have to do is listen to their rhetoric, since before Obama was elected, and consistently ever since (well, fairly consistently, there's been some flip-flopping, but you get the idea). So I give Obama points for the things he's done that aren't as bad as they could have been. Time will tell about the rest.

PIZMOBEACH

Saturday, February 18, 2012 4:45 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by AnthonyT:
Quote:
And I don't see anyone saying, "War it is then!"

Hello,

If that's not the conclusion, then it doesn't matter how awful Iran is, what sorts of Nuclear programs they're developing, or how much they despise Israel.

If we're not going to bomb them or invade them or otherwise violate their sovereignty, then these are just unattached observations floating around without purpose.

However, these observations often seem (to me, anyway) to be a list justifying action against Iran.

I keep making the same mistake of not being explicit enough, 'cuz when you don't you leave all sorts of room for people to put you in the boxes they're most comfortable with - my bad.

I should have said: "And I don't see anyone in this thread saying, "War it is then!"

I did say I was cautiously optimistic to see (the story has vaporized though) that Iran wanted to get back to talks.

Scifi movie music + Firefly dialogue clips, 24 hours a day - http://www.scifiradio.com

BYTEMITE

Saturday, February 18, 2012 4:54 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by AnthonyT:
Quote:
And I don't see anyone saying, "War it is then!"

Hello,

If that's not the conclusion, then it doesn't matter how awful Iran is, what sorts of Nuclear programs they're developing, or how much they despise Israel.

If we're not going to bomb them or invade them or otherwise violate their sovereignty, then these are just unattached observations floating around without purpose.

However, these observations often seem (to me, anyway) to be a list justifying action against Iran.

--Anthony

_______________________________________________

"In every war, the state enacts a tax of freedom upon the citizenry. The unspoken promise is that the tax shall be revoked at war's end. Endless war holds no such promise. Hence, Eternal War is Eternal Slavery." --Admiral Robert J. Henner

Exactly what I think.

If people aren't saying "war it is" but they're using these talking points, then they haven't looked at the agendas pushing them and haven't carried that to the logical conclusion.

BYTEMITE

Saturday, February 18, 2012 4:58 PM

Persia has always been a VERY rich empire. I wouldn't say they've had no exports, just that oil is the only export the west is interested in nowadays.

PIZMOBEACH

Saturday, February 18, 2012 5:36 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
Quote:
Originally posted by AnthonyT:
Quote:
And I don't see anyone saying, "War it is then!"

Hello,

If that's not the conclusion, then it doesn't matter how awful Iran is, what sorts of Nuclear programs they're developing, or how much they despise Israel.

If we're not going to bomb them or invade them or otherwise violate their sovereignty, then these are just unattached observations floating around without purpose.

However, these observations often seem (to me, anyway) to be a list justifying action against Iran.

--Anthony

Exactly. Suppose Iran *IS* pursuing nuclear weapons. Suppose they actually build them.

What reaction are you proposing? If not war, if not military strikes, then what? What *I* propose is that a nuclear Iran is no more or less dangerous than a nuclear Israel, Pakistan, India, China, or America. You've yet to provide any evidence that proves otherwise, yet seem adamant that we must do SOMETHING. What, exactly, do you propose we do? Bomb them? Sanction them? Embargo them? Refuse to talk to them?

What I see here and elsewhere is lots of people basically using their own prejudices and stereotypes to justify attacks on Iran. What you're saying, in essence boils down to "Hey, they say they aren't making nukes, but we all know how they lie." It's offensive, because what it proves to me is that you don't *know* anything about Iran, its people, its motives, or anything else, and what you think you know is wrong.

When I'm talking to someone and they preface their "thoughts" with "Hey, I don't mean to sound racist, but..." or "Hey, all I know is...", then it becomes immediately and abundantly clear to me that they are indeed about to say something horribly racist, or they in fact don't know much of anything at all.

"What I see here and elsewhere is lots of people basically using their own prejudices and stereotypes to justify attacks on Iran. "

Who lots here?

I haven't proposed anything. I posted in this thread: "I try and guess what the outcome might be..." I talked about what Israel might do based on Iran's actions.

I also posted, "glad to see them talking again."

I also posted, "I think less nukes globally is the best solution."

I should have posted, "Kwicko probably won't read any of this, but here goes..."

Kwicko: What *I* propose is that a nuclear Iran is no more or less dangerous than a nuclear Israel, Pakistan, India, China, or America."
I agree, though I'd probably lean toward the more dangerous side of your statement, my opinion based on their comments about Israel. Everyone on that list has the potential to mess up a lot of little people's lives without much effort, one more country with nukes = bad. It's pretty simple.

Kwicko: "What you're saying, in essence boils down to "Hey, they say they aren't making nukes, but we all know how they lie."
News Flash: All Governments lie - cripes, where you been? You seriously don't get that...

Kwicko: "It's offensive, because what it proves to me is that you don't *know* anything about Iran, its people, its motives, or anything else, and what you think you know is wrong."
I think you still have some brain swell. Where did I profess I *knew* anything about Iran or their intentions? I did work with an Iranian guy for a couple years once - we worked in a camera shop together, Reza, great guy, loved "American Blondes" and sugar - huge sugar freak, carried packets around with him and ate them throughout the day. LIved in a trailer park and drove a beat up mitsubishi Lancer. That's really about it. Please tell me how much you *know.*

Kwicko: "When I'm talking to someone and they preface their "thoughts" with "Hey, I don't mean to sound racist, but..." or "Hey, all I know is...", then it becomes immediately and abundantly clear to me that they are indeed about to say something horribly racist, or they in fact don't know much of anything at all.

Again, can't wait to hear how you came to have such great knowledge of

ANTHONYT

Saturday, February 18, 2012 5:58 PM

Quote:

I don't trust your judgement on this: "no one is going to USE a nuke in this day and age."
That means one of us is wrong. If I'm wrong then no bombs go off, if you're wrong things go boom. If you were put in charge of such things which scenario is the wisest one to plan for?

If Iran would never use one then they won't mind us making sure they can't, right?

Hello Pizmo,

I suspect comments like this one make people think you support action against Iran.

--Anthony

_______________________________________________

"In every war, the state enacts a tax of freedom upon the citizenry. The unspoken promise is that the tax shall be revoked at war's end. Endless war holds no such promise. Hence, Eternal War is Eternal Slavery." --Admiral Robert J. Henner

BYTEMITE

Saturday, February 18, 2012 6:00 PM

Pizmo: Um. I may have been a little hormonal earlier.

I just wanted to say I have a friend who's family is from Iraq, and also that I do appreciate you've made a friend of an Iranian. It's a nice story.

And I'm starting to get where you're coming from, but I still think you need to be careful that your concerns aren't taken and hijacked by people who do want war.

PIZMOBEACH

Saturday, February 18, 2012 6:59 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by AnthonyT:
Quote:

I don't trust your judgement on this: "no one is going to USE a nuke in this day and age."
That means one of us is wrong. If I'm wrong then no bombs go off, if you're wrong things go boom. If you were put in charge of such things which scenario is the wisest one to plan for?

If Iran would never use one then they won't mind us making sure they can't, right?

Hello Pizmo,

I suspect comments like this one make people think you support action against Iran.

People keep turning over what I've said like they're sure there's bugs and nasties underneath... I love it.

It's almost poetic: I think the Middle East is like a big ole leaking drum of gasoline and nukes are matches and the fewer matches the better. A region that has what EVER? seen peace? Seems like reducing the bombs is a pretty safe smart thing. "Making sure they can't" yeah, I think inspectors are a good idea. If we have success there we can expand on that to include the rest of the nukes. Perhaps some people think the world would be safer if everyone had nukes?

Scifi movie music + Firefly dialogue clips, 24 hours a day - http://www.scifiradio.com

PIZMOBEACH

Saturday, February 18, 2012 7:10 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Bytemite:
Pizmo: Um. I may have been a little hormonal earlier.

I just wanted to say I have a friend who's family is from Iraq, and also that I do appreciate you've made a friend of an Iranian. It's a nice story.

And I'm starting to get where you're coming from, but I still think you need to be careful that your concerns aren't taken and hijacked by people who do want war.

No problem Byte - I have 2 older brothers and all we did was fight and argue until all hours, kinda feels like home.

That is the most frustrating thing about posting here - I know who I am and yet it doesn't always seem to come across. I like all kinds of peoples, I'm from a family of compulsive travelers, the more someone is different than me the more interested I tend to be in them or where they are from. I'd love to go to Iran, I'd love to walk around the globe with only a linen sport coat and an amex card...

Scifi movie music + Firefly dialogue clips, 24 hours a day - http://www.scifiradio.com

NIKI2

Saturday, February 18, 2012 7:27 PM

Quote:
That is the most frustrating thing about posting here - I know who I am and yet it doesn't always seem to come across.

Boy, can I relate to THAT one!

I'm glad it was just a glitch, Byte, it didn't SOUND like you to me. Put me in the same category as Pizmo, in that I do believe there's a threat, I DO believe it only takes a few crazies to do something crazy (given history, that seems obvious to me), but I don't want to go to war over a possibility. I just don't know what to do about it...and actually, more about Israel's (understandable) paranoia than Iran itself. I fear Israel will take steps which will involve us, and there are enough people in America who feel like them, that it makes me nervous. Probably more nervous than the concept of Iran getting nukes and coming after US or something. I just don't totally dismiss the possibility of Iran getting aggressive with nukes.