Real World Event Discussions

Iran threatens Europe

POSTED BY: pizmobeach
UPDATED: Tuesday, June 2, 2026 17:14
VIEWED: 8095
PAGE 8 of 11

FREMDFIRMA

Friday, February 17, 2012 5:50 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
Yeah, you'd almost think they were Republicans or something, they have such low regard for the lives of their countrymen...

Well, AFTER they pop outta the womb, anyways...

Yeah, not feelin merciful tonite, no.

-F

FREMDFIRMA

Friday, February 17, 2012 5:53 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Bytemite:
That's not really how it works. I imagine Israel actually probably does get oil from hostile nations, because they buy it off a market, not from the hostile nations.

Nope.

We're bound by Treaty, which I have pointed out in other cases is equal in authority to the US Constitution, to supply their petroleum needs over and above our own, even if we go short.
http://www.mfa.gov.il/mfa/peace%20process/guide%20to%20the%20peace%20p
rocess/memorandum%20of%20agreement%20between%20the%20governments%20of

I'd love to meet the bastards who drew THAT up and signed it in a dark alley somewhere.

-Frem

I do not serve the Blind God.

OONJERAH

Friday, February 17, 2012 6:39 AM

Quote ByteMite: "For such 'little impractical people,' they gave us algebra."

Indeed. And the alphabet. They were once great.

Quote FremdFirma: "Well, AFTER they pop outta the womb, anyways..."

Good one, Frem *laughs*

Quote Kwicko: "So now that you've come right out and admitted that we're 'a little people, a silly people,'
and far too impractical for our own good, where is your concern for our having nuclear weapons by the
thousands?"

Will you show me how to make us unHave 'em? Please. At least, we haven't nuked anyone in 65 years. *whew*
Due primarily to fear of retaliation?

Wikipedia:
"Desertification is the degradation of land in any drylands. Caused by a variety of factors, such as climate
change and human activities, desertification is one of the most significant global environmental problems."

"Dryland ecosystems are already very fragile, and can rarely sustain the increased pressures that result from
intense population growth. Many of these areas are inappropriately opened to development, when they cannot
sustain human settlements. The most common cause of desertification is the over cultivation of desert lands."

"Vegetation plays a major role in determining the biological composition of the soil. Studies have shown that,
in many environments, the rate of erosion and runoff decreases exponentially with increased vegetation cover.
Overgrazing removes this vegetation causing erosion and loss of topsoil."

Desertification and poverty: ... NM. That connection is obvious to everyone.

"Countermeasures and prevention:
Techniques exist for mitigating or reversing the effects of desertification, but there are numerous barriers
to their implementation. One of these is that the costs of adopting sustainable agricultural practices
sometimes exceed the benefits for individual farmers, even while they are socially and environmentally
beneficial. Another issue is a lack of political will, and lack of funding to support land reclamation
and anti-desertification programs."

"As there are many different types of deserts, there are also different types of desert reclamation
methodologies. An example for this is the salt-flats in the Rub' al Khali desert in Saudi-Arabia. These
salt-flats are one of the most promising desert areas for seawater agriculture and could be revitalized
without the use of freshwater or much energy."

"Farmer Managed Natural Regeneration (FMNR) is another technique that has produced successful results for
desert reclamation. Since 1980, this method to reforest degraded landscape has been applied with some success
in Niger. This simple and low-cost method has enabled farmers to regenerate some 30,000 square kilometers in Niger."

Egypt, bits n pieces:
(The Nile Valley had been developed by the Romans as a wheat bowl.)

"Climate changes and/or overgrazing around 8000 BC began to desiccate the pastoral lands of Egypt, forming the Sahara.*
Early tribal peoples migrated to the Nile River where they developed a settled agricultural economy and more centralized
society."
(*It wasn't always a desert, folks. The Nile Valley gives Egypt a barrier against full desertification. ~O)

"The introduction in 1820 of long-staple cotton, the Egyptian variety of which became notable, transformed its agriculture
into a cash-crop monoculture before the end of the century. The social effects of this were enormous: land ownership became
concentrated and many foreigners arrived, shifting production towards international markets."
(No more wheat bowl, I guess. ~O)

"The economy of Egypt is one of the most diversified in the Middle East, with sectors such as tourism, service,
agriculture and industry at almost equal production levels."

"Egypt's economy depends mainly on agriculture, media, petroleum exports, and tourism; there are also more
than three million Egyptians working abroad, mainly in Saudi Arabia, the Persian Gulf and Europe. The
completion of the Aswan High

PIZMOBEACH

Friday, February 17, 2012 2:19 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
Quote:
Originally posted by pizmobeach:

The poll you posted was from 2007 btw, the height of Bush's highly successful assassination tour of the US image internationally, another loon that would have probably gladly pushed the button.

Which is why it's all the more confusing as to WHY you'd listen to his same bunch of neo-con cronies when they're trying to sell you the exact same line of bullshit they used to sell people on the disastrous Iraq war.

Which neo-con cronies am I listening to?

Oh look, another neo-con cronie source "misquoting" Khamenei:

“Israel will certainly be vanished… it should not, and will not remain, God Willing,” he added.

http://www.almanar.com.lb/english/adetails.php?eid=44449&frid=23&secca
tid=32&cid=23&fromval=1

What do you suppose he meant by that? Surely it loses something in the translation, almost sounds like a greeting card in English. Must be the Lebanese-con translation.

Why are you such a defender of radical Islam? Do you really think only we can suck?

Scifi movie music + Firefly dialogue clips, 24 hours a day - http://www.scifiradio.com

PIZMOBEACH

Friday, February 17, 2012 2:21 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by AnthonyT:
Quote:
This is twice now in several months that I've heard you say and take positions I think are completely reprehensible

Hello,

I don't think Piz is evil. Or at least I don't remember Piz being evil, and he's been around a while. Likely there's just a couple key areas where his train tracks and yours don't intersect.

Must be me droning on and on about getting us out of Afghanistan, how you can't trust any government or "leader," and wondering why we can't all get along because it seems like there's plenty for everyone. Watch yourself Anthony, don't get too close.

Scifi movie music + Firefly dialogue clips, 24 hours a day - http://www.scifiradio.com

PIZMOBEACH

Friday, February 17, 2012 2:27 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Bytemite:
IAEA - "International Atomic Energy Commission."

I think you completely missed the parts of that report that indicate that the IAEA is just fine with Iran pursuing commercial uses of enriched uranium.

You, on the other hand, are against them having that, because you think it's like some sort of gateway drug to nuclear apocalypse.

Iran is claiming they have new generation centrifuges, a bold claim that doesn't hold much weight and which seems to be an effort to win support from the public for Ahmedinejad. Altogether this indicates they are really far behind and lying to save face about how much they've accomplished.

Schematics and research and attempts at reverse engineering is not the same thing as successful tests, which is not the same thing as prototype technology or having that technology available. It also says nothing about their immediate intentions to wipe Israel off the map, which itself appears to be propaganda and entirely unfeasible, like the ant biting the anteater.

They don't have the technology.

I would be less concerned and more trusting if the rhetoric coming from Iran was less hostile - not because I think it's right to bomb Iran, but because I think Israel and parts of the US will think so. Again, I don't want that. It's a hard concept to get - I don't take sides, I try and see outcomes from actions - what is likely to happen because dumb ass A said this stupid thing about B. I'm a simple person, all I want is to learn how to make great fried chicken.

Scifi movie music + Firefly dialogue clips, 24 hours a day - http://www.scifiradio.com

PIZMOBEACH

Friday, February 17, 2012 2:43 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Bytemite:
Quote:

Suicidal? Um, the region is actually kind of known for using suicide as a tactic!

Wow, that's not at all an offensive stereotype about the middle east. Yeah, everyone in the middle east is a suicide bomber, or will become one. The average farmer is just so dangerous and crazy.

You don't seem to understand the very specific conditions required for a Muslim to be considered a martyr by their religion. Getting curb stomped after phenomenal stupidity isn't a martyr suicide tactic.

Wow, you have super posting powers - I wasn't going there and bam, you turned it into a stereotype so fast. You went from "suicide is used in the region as a tactic," to nearly quoting me as saying "everyone in the Middle East is a suicide bomber." I don't stand a chance against that kind of posting kung fu.

Okay, truly funny statement, not sure you meant it to be:

"Getting curb stomped after phenomenal stupidity isn't a martyr suicide tactic."

Quote:
Originally posted by Bytemite:

This is twice now in several months that I've heard you say and take positions I think are completely reprehensible, to the point that I start to think I don't want to talk to you anymore. I imagine I will respond to you again in another thread anyway because I forget, but I'm certainly wishing right now that I'd stuck to my original decision.

Perhaps you are too. Maybe I should try again.

Actually, that's twice you have taken my comments and changed them so that they are extreme and indefensible so you can vent about *something* - God only knows what the root is. I have a guess but I'm keeping it to myself.

Scifi movie music + Firefly dialogue clips, 24 hours a day - http://www.scifiradio.com

BYTEMITE

Friday, February 17, 2012 5:36 PM

OONJERAH: That is Egypt, and it's also a problem seen in Afghanistan and Iraq. Iran is a slightly different story. The low lands of the nation get very hot, and the deserts in Iran are due to being in the rainshadow of mountains. There are really only two ergs (dune fields) of any size, the landscape is more dominated by semi-arid grasslands, steppes, and forests.

Beige is erg, white is evaporative salt flats, pink is semi-arid grassland, greens are forest.

It's less so much that they've raped the land and can't sell off those resources anymore, but that outside cities subsistence farming dominates and inside cities it's a knowledge based economy.

NIKI2

Friday, February 17, 2012 5:49 PM

Oonj, thanx for the material on desertification. I was going to address why oil would be their major export, and you covered it nicely. Yes, a lot CAN be done, but it's damned difficult to reclaim a desert, and that's what makes up most of Afghanistan AND Iran, unfortunately. Once they discovered oil, and we found all those wonderful uses for it, I think it's only natural they'd focus on getting rich from it. Bear in mind that both countries were historically trading countries, used most by camel trains passing through. The inhabited areas back then were small and widely spaced...as they still mostly are in Afghanistan. Certainly there IS agriculture, etc., but I'm not sure if it's historically been enough for export, much less anything else.

As to this whole topic, I don't want a war, certainly, but I don't dismiss the possibility. As far as I can see, Israel is so fidgety and paranoid at this point that THEY may well take us into one by trying to bomb Iran's nuclear facilities. Where it goes from there is anyone's guess.

As to " at an August 2005 meeting of the International Atomic Energy Agency "...that was 2005, seven years ago, and this whole thing has evolved a LOT since then, so I don't think it's 100% valid. I don't know how much the Iranian government has changed in the intervening years, but from what I hear about the hard liners being worse than Ahmadinewhatshisname, and Israel pushing the envelope, and our own righties crying for war (listened to Santorum lately?), I think it's quite a different matter now. And it DOES take only one or two madmen to start a war...

I think it's both foolish to say "it can't happen here" AND to call for war, and I have no control over either when it comes to TPTB. All I can do is hope to hell we don't start one OR get pulled into one by Israel, while at the same time nobody will ever convince me it's impossible.

Byte, respectfully, your verbiage seems to be getting kind of aggressive, IMHO; I, too, have never known Pizmo to be "evil" or anything even close to it. Just sayin'.

BYTEMITE

Friday, February 17, 2012 6:12 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
Quote:
Originally posted by Bytemite:
That's not really how it works. I imagine Israel actually probably does get oil from hostile nations, because they buy it off a market, not from the hostile nations.

Nope.

We're bound by Treaty, which I have pointed out in other cases is equal in authority to the US Constitution, to supply their petroleum needs over and above our own, even if we go short.
http://www.mfa.gov.il/mfa/peace%20process/guide%20to%20the%20peace%20p
rocess/memorandum%20of%20agreement%20between%20the%20governments%20of

I'd love to meet the bastards who drew THAT up and signed it in a dark alley somewhere.

-Frem

I do not serve the Blind God.

Ah. Well, they're getting oil from those nations through us then, probably. Instead of the open market.