Russia begins to stir.

POSTED BY: oldenglanddry
UPDATED: Thursday, February 5, 2026 17:50
VIEWED: 3079
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PIZMOBEACH

Sunday, February 5, 2012 4:07 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Bytemite:
Putin practically had the Russian equivalent of Hitler Youth Camps a while back. He has his own personality cult over there. He could hide just about anything.

He has secret police behind him, and he got away with poisoning his opposition once. I would not be optimistic about Putin simply going away.

Secret Police? So? They'll get rolled up or melt into the public. He didn't get away with poisoning, he's paying the price now, that's what these protests are - protests against his character and past behavior. Sure, not without a fight, but there's something even bigger than Putin at work imho, Money. The growing middle class, and even very wealthy Russians, they don't want to go backwards.

Scifi movie music + Firefly dialogue clips, 24 hours a day - http://www.scifiradio.com

ANTHONYT

Sunday, February 5, 2012 4:33 PM

Hello,

This video outlines some of the reasons I worry for the Russian people. There is still so much idealism of the man by much of the population.

If his brand of strength is still seen as an ideal, it makes it possible for people to embrace a new incarnation and surrender their freedoms in exchange for something sinister.

--Anthony

_______________________________________________

"In every war, the state enacts a tax of freedom upon the citizenry. The unspoken promise is that the tax shall be revoked at war's end. Endless war holds no such promise. Hence, Eternal War is Eternal Slavery." --Admiral Robert J. Henner

GEEZER

Sunday, February 5, 2012 5:33 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by AnthonyT:
Hello,

I'm not sure how Saddam relates.

If you were a Sunni in Iraq, you probably felt that Saddam was competent, since he kept the Shi'a, Kurds, and other non-Sunnis from causing trouble. He probably made the trains run on time as well.

Frem's comment about Putin at least being 'competent', made me think that sometimes folks pay too high a price for that competency.

"Keep the Shiny side up"

ANTHONYT

Sunday, February 5, 2012 5:53 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Geezer:
Quote:
Originally posted by AnthonyT:
Hello,

I'm not sure how Saddam relates.

If you were a Sunni in Iraq, you probably felt that Saddam was competent, since he kept the Shi'a, Kurds, and other non-Sunnis from causing trouble. He probably made the trains run on time as well.

Frem's comment about Putin at least being 'competent', made me think that sometimes folks pay too high a price for that competency.

"Keep the Shiny side up"

Hello,

Oh they do, and I don't think Frem would ever suggest otherwise.

But in Russia, even the oppressed often looked up to Stalin. Revered him. It's a different mindset.

--Anthony

_______________________________________________

"In every war, the state enacts a tax of freedom upon the citizenry. The unspoken promise is that the tax shall be revoked at war's end. Endless war holds no such promise. Hence, Eternal War is Eternal Slavery." --Admiral Robert J. Henner

DREAMTROVE

Sunday, February 5, 2012 6:00 PM

I concur with Frem, but also with Geezer. I'm conflicted. I don't want our arab spring nonsense to spill into Russia, which I know is what's going to happen, us, pouring american resourcing into another russian civil war, because Russia is not fully on board with our economic program.

One of the problems with the pokemon gotta catch em all globalism is that some players who were in on the game can withdraw, and thus it is catch up forever.

That's what a ship is, you know - it's not just a keel and a hull and a deck and sails, that's what a ship needs.

FREMDFIRMA

Sunday, February 5, 2012 10:53 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by AnthonyT:
Oh they do, and I don't think Frem would ever suggest otherwise.

But in Russia, even the oppressed often looked up to Stalin. Revered him. It's a different mindset.

Yep, that's what I meant - their culture places a much higher priority on competence than not being an evil prick, and he's really pulled off such a cult-of-personality thing that a lot of people who utterly despise him support his ass cause the alternative is often an even more corrupt, weaker leader who can't even get the trains to run on time.

Ain't sayin it's right, I'm sayin that's how it is, and to blind yourself to the realities by not understanding this is just plain silly.

-Frem

I do not serve the Blind God.

KWICKO

Monday, February 6, 2012 12:42 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by pizmobeach:
You guys prove my point - you are most likely older and just don't understand/get/feel the 'net, and probably don't know that you don't. I'm not trying to make you feel bad or rag on you for it, just is.
Putin won't get violent, and if he does he'll disappear in shame, another leader who didn't get the Ozymandias rule.

It's funny, because I spend a lot of time working with people who are younger, and they keep insisting to me that "protests never work", and that any such kind of thing is just pure stupidity and an exercise in futility. I point out things like the Arab Spring, the recent rethinking of decisions by Verizon, Netflix, ShittyBank™, the Komen Foundation, and others, and they still say protests never work.

I'm older, probably older than you, definitely older than Rappy and Frem, and I *get* the internet, I've seen how fast things can happen. Putin and his cronies really have no frame of reference for it, though, and still think that respect comes in an iron fist.

I'd like to hope you're right, but I fear you're wrong, and that this will make Syria look like an Occupy protest.

"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill

RIONAEIRE

Monday, February 6, 2012 7:29 AM

Guess what Quicko? You're only 3 years older than Raptor (thanks to self for posting that age thread so I can get y'all figured out.)

Putin? Why is that guy still in power? I'm so over him, why aren't they? The serious answer to that question is that he's probably rigged elections, or people don't realize how weird he is. But still, he's so ... been around forever.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

PIZMOBEACH

Monday, February 6, 2012 4:02 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by AnthonyT:

This video outlines some of the reasons I worry for the Russian people. There is still so much idealism of the man by much of the population.

I see this as an example of what I've been talking about - a YouTube video easily accessed from any computer with a web connection, say inside Russia. And while some parts might be flattering (sentimental) toward Stalin, there's still plenty of pointing out his negatives. The old cartoonist around the 7 minute mark, bent over as he draws Stalin, something he couldn't do before because of great fear, paints a pretty sad picture of how he ruled. I get how people can idolize a man as a symbol, (Lincoln) and it can be an ok thing in a very simplistic, prideful if not altogether knowing way. This shows that and his truer side. Before the web no Russian would have seen even this glimpse into who was behind that simple image, now they can see and pass it on or embed it in their email communications/website/blog/FaceBook/twitter posts for FREE. Instant Stalin was a Murderous Schmuck x 10,000.

Scifi movie music + Firefly dialogue clips, 24 hours a day - http://www.scifiradio.com

PIZMOBEACH

Monday, February 6, 2012 4:12 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:

It's funny, because I spend a lot of time working with people who are younger, and they keep insisting to me that "protests never work", and that any such kind of thing is just pure stupidity and an exercise in futility. I point out things like the Arab Spring, the recent rethinking of decisions by Verizon, Netflix, ShittyBank™, the Komen Foundation, and others, and they still say protests never work.

That is funny - "it's right there, right where I'm pointing, you're looking right at it..."

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:

I'm older, probably older than you, definitely older than Rappy and Frem, and I *get* the internet, I've seen how fast things can happen. Putin and his cronies really have no frame of reference for it, though, and still think that respect comes in an iron fist.

I'd like to hope you're right, but I fear you're wrong, and that this will make Syria look like an Occupy protest.

It does seem to be a bridge part of our history - between analogue and digital, and not just technology. I think HK hit it when he said that it's the free movement of so much information that sets this time apart. Before it was people who studied in the the States or Europe, wherever, that brought back ideas outside of an older culture like the ones in the Middle East, that influenced change (and vice versa). Now you don't have to leave the comfort of your computer.
How many people from how many countries read and post here in our little hamlet? And we're all influenced to various degrees by all of them, even Whozit's.

How many web sites from how many countries do you travel to in a days surfing? Al Jazeera? Done! Food Blogger in Bombay, done! Soccer blab in the UK, done! On and on, can't begin to count it, can't...

Scifi movie music + Firefly dialogue clips, 24 hours a day - http://www.scifiradio.com

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