Robots, AI and Genetics in Firelfy (the lack thereof)
POSTED BY: eilo
UPDATED: Saturday, August 28, 2004 18:00
VIEWED: 6839
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Hi!
Newbie here. Hello to everyone :)
After reading the "Aliens in Firefly" thread, I realized that this is not the only thing handled different in Firefly than in your default Sci-Fi show.
I havn't seen any robots, artificial intelligence or obvious use of genetics in the show.
While I totally agree that it makes much more sense to drop settlers with horses and cows than with robots on new planets (just think what a service technician would charge for flying all the way out to some border world), I'm very curious if they have any on the central planets. And if not - why?
While I think that many movies (even new ones like I Robot or Minority Report) are much too enthusiastic about the cybernetic development in the next few years, I think that 500 years in the future is enough time to create something more useful than my Robosapien.
The same for a decent AI. Okay, they seem to have some kind of autopilot (which isn't the smartest one, if it runs over hapless, space-drifting astronauts), but like the robots, you would think that 500 years into the future they've build a better Eliza.
And while the whole Blue Sun stuff might have to do something with genetic experiments, you would think they used genetically altered animals or plants on the terraformed planets.
Don't get me wrong, I don't think that the show needs a R2D2, HAL or an X5, but I am kinda curious why these fields are not even touched upon. Would they take focus from the main story (like aliens maybe would)? Didn't they have enough money? Had they planned something for later episodes?
This got rather long and my English isn't the best, so I hope you stayed with me. Thanks :)
Regards,
Eilo
--
Quotomat says: "Memories are meant to fade. They're designed that way for a reason."
(Angela Bassett as Mace in 'Strange Days', 1995)
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Gee, I get to weigh in first--shiny!
Here's my take on robots, AI, genetic gymnastics, aliens, laser guns, and the usual trappings of sci-fi. It don't belong in the 'verse, no way, no how.
Sci-fi started out as a way to imagine where the world will be in 50 or 100 or 500 years. Naturally there would be speculation about robots and AI and genetics and aliens, etc. But at some point it seems that sci-fi went from "Gee, what if...?" to "Boy, howdy! Robots and laser guns!" It's gotten to the point now where even having robots and laser guns seems to suck the "what if" right out.
Hence Joss's resistance to having any "typical" sci-fi trappings. His story retains the "Gee, what if" feel because the only classic sci-fi element is space travel. To introduce the other stuff would be to take the attention away from Mal, Zoe, Wash, Jayne, Kaylee, Inara, Simon, River, and Book. And we just can't have that, now can we?
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Quote:
Originally posted by eilo:
I havn't seen any robots, artificial intelligence or obvious use of genetics in the show.
The border worlds are too poor with little infrastructure. The core worlds are sufficiently sophisticated that wealth is demonstrated by the use of human servants and technology is integrated and unobtrusive.
Simon and River are, of course, clones of Gabriel and Regan.
Only Purplebelly believes this
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Quote:
Originally posted by InevitableBetrayal:
Here's my take on robots, AI, genetic gymnastics, aliens, laser guns, and the usual trappings of sci-fi. It don't belong in the 'verse, no way, no how.
Well for a start they do have Laser guns in the Verse (plus what appears to be sonic weaponry).
As for Robotics/AI they could still exist in the Core Worlds but are tightly regulated for some reason. Alternatively the society of the 26th Century could be (and seems) pretty luddite and perhaps this is because of some event in their history (AI Wars, Mass unemployment caused by robotics etc etc)
Actually an AI would be the ultimate weapon against the telepaths because they couldn't read it. This is one of the plot lines in my Fanfic series (shameless plug) and would have been an interesting approach for the show itself.
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Quote:
Originally posted by InevitableBetrayal:
But at some point it seems that sci-fi went from "Gee, what if...?" to "Boy, howdy! Robots and laser guns!"
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I wish I had a magical wish-granting plank.
I concur with your assessment of the change in story content/style, but I differ with you about where the change occurs. In my opinion, it isn't time-based ("at some point...") so much as venue-based.
Written science fiction has far more frequently been about ideas ("what if this goes on? how will this affect people/society? what does it mean if...?"). Filmed science fiction has always been more likely to satisfy itself with the trappings of science fiction ("what if we tell this lame, derivative action story with spaceships and laser guns instead of cars and Glocks?"). That's not to say that you can't find examples of the "trappings" trait in written science fiction or the "idea" trait in movie/TV science fiction. But I believe the basic tendency is there.
Why does it break down that way? My theory is that science fiction literature is written by people who have learned (by practice) to grow the story from the physical elements of science fiction that they use to set up the basic conflict that they want to explore. This is their specialty. TV and movie writers tend tell a stock story. The science fiction trappings are nothing more than props or sets. The story doesn't grow from the environment that these elements truly represent.
Then, occasionally, you find someone who really gets it... the fact that the story grows from the environment and how it changes PEOPLE. That how the science fiction elements affect humans IS the story. Whedon (and a few others) seem to get it.
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Quote:
Originally posted by danfan:
Written science fiction has far more frequently been about ideas ("what if this goes on? how will this affect people/society? what does it mean if...?"). Filmed science fiction has always been more likely to satisfy itself with the trappings of science fiction ("what if we tell this lame, derivative action story with spaceships and laser guns instead of cars and Glocks?").
Good point.
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Quote:
Originally posted by danfan:
Written science fiction has far more frequently been about ideas ("what if this goes on? how will this affect people/society? what does it mean if...?"). Filmed science fiction has always been more likely to satisfy itself with the trappings of science fiction ("what if we tell this lame, derivative action story with spaceships and laser guns instead of cars and Glocks?").
Good point.
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Well, there was one reference to cloning:
from "War Stories"
SIMON
It's his ear.
Inara, Kaylee and Book recoil, noticeably sickened. Simon looks at it, his head tilted.
BOOK
(pissed)
< Filthy fornicators of livestock! >
ZOE
We're getting him back.
JAYNE
What are we gonna do, clone 'im?
SIMON
(re: the ear;
clinically)
It's a clean cut. With the right
equipment, I should be able to
reattach it.
(looks at them, also
clinically)
That's assuming there's a head.
So I don't know if that means cloning is common, or if this an example of Jayne being stupid. But considering the human organs don't quite work correctly, there are apparently more problems than maybe we'd think in the 'Verse. Maybe human cloning is possible, but outlawed and disapproved of?
Oh we did see the garbage robot in "Trash" It seems they use robots for things like that, at least the "rich and paranoid" do.
Dan
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Wait for the movie if you wanna see this stuff. It's coming.
check out my WIP firefly roleplay system at www.estador.co.uk/firefly
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Hi!
I totally forgot the trash drones, you're right - it shows how well such elements are integrated in the show without being the reason for the show.
Like I said, I don't want to see this stuff, but since Demi-God Whedon decided to base Firefly in "our" universe, you have to touch these subjects in one or another form, since these are all important subjects in our time.
If you take stuff like Star Wars (which was always more Fantasy than Sci-Fi to me) or Warhammer 40K for example (where 38000 years have passed since our time) you don't have to explain anything, but 500 years is not enough to sweep all known science under a rug.
I'm totally satisfied if these subjects are handled in dialog (all this talk about Earth-That-Was is much cooler than actually showing Earth itself) or like the laser for example, so I'm looking forward what the movie reveals about stuff like this.
The difference between Sci-Fi in books and movies seems to be one cause why Firefly "failed" to impress enough people - most of them want to see the shiny stuff like robots and aliens...
There are some movies which try to adress problems without being all techno-dependant (like Gattaca or Solaris), but they were not very well received by the general public, too.
Maybe "smart" Sci-Fi is only possible in books... My favourite book is actually a Sci-Fi book which has almost no action at all (Inherit The Stars by James P. Hogan, about discovering a 50000 year old dead human in a spacesuit on the moon and recontructing how he got there), but if I ever should have enough money, I would try to make it into a move, just for me :) After financing some new Firefly episodes of course ;)
Regards,
Eilo
--
Quotomat says: "We lead our lives, and when they end, sometimes we leave a little of ourselves behind. Sometimes we leave money, a painting, sometimes we leave a kind word. And sometimes, we leave an empty space."
(Ellen Muth as Georgia 'George' Lass in 'Dead Like Me', 2003)
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