Defying the Deity
POSTED BY: AnthonyT
UPDATED: Tuesday, December 27, 2011 18:15
VIEWED: 9122
PAGE 7 of 11
"a male authoritarian human being, of course"
Hello,
A female God would not bother me.
I've worshipped a few women in my time. ;-)
Even a sexless, nonhumanoid God would not bother me. I often think of an energy field when I try to picture God.
I do find it comforting to imagine a God who loves, however.
--Anthony
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"In every war, the state enacts a tax of freedom upon the citizenry. The unspoken promise is that the tax shall be revoked at war's end. Endless war holds no such promise. Hence, Eternal War is Eternal Slavery." --Admiral Robert J. Henner
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Quote:
Originally posted by dreamtrove:
Mal
It's not my idea, it's a widely circulated one, and I learned it in astronomy many years ago. I will dig it up.
But before going further I will echo Byte's statement earlier: I have no desire to threadjack Anthony's religion thread into a discussion of cosmology, so I'll start a separate thread for this discussion.
That's what a ship is, you know - it's not just a keel and a hull and a deck and sails, that's what a ship needs.
Excellent. I have more thoughts, but I'll save them for the new thread.
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hmm-burble-blah, blah-blah-blah, take a left
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Quote:
Originally posted by AnthonyT:
"a male authoritarian human being, of course"
Hello,
A female God would not bother me.
That's because you're cooler than the av-er-age bear.
Quote:I've been there too. Long story - the end result is that when I felt afraid as a teen and a young adult, whether sitting in class feeling insecure or lying in bed fearing the under-the-bed monster, I would picture a glowing blue energy field around me that nothing could pierce. I'd go ahead and let my imagination put that monster under the bed, have it reach around a giant skeletal hand to stab me with it's bony fingers, and the field would repel it. It totally worked.
Even a sexless, nonhumanoid God would not bother me. I often think of an energy field when I try to picture God.
I see this as evidence of the power of the human mind. I have no problem with religion in that sense - it allows us to tap into our own strengths, that 90% of our brains that we "don't use." This role of religion is a good one. And in a way, it supports that human form of God. God really and truly is us, the power we have inside ourselves to be stronger and better.
The problem is when it doesn't stop there. The problem is: My god doesn't like abortion so you can't have one. My god doesn't like gays so you can't get married. My god loves America so if you don't believe in my god than you're not a real American. Etc.
That stuff pisses me off to no end.
Quote:Because you're exceptionally cool, Anthony, I hope you'll take this as philosophizing and not an insult...
I do find it comforting to imagine a God who loves, however.
In this, you're no different than the caveman who came up with stories to explain thunder and lightening. They needed the comfort.
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hmm-burble-blah, blah-blah-blah, take a left
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Mal4Prez: White holes and fecund universes. It's unlikely that we'll ever have evidence for white holes, beyond what we can observe backwards through time to our own big bang. But we can mathematically demonstrate white holes, and we also know that there's very likely a white hole in every black hole. That in turn suggests a great deal about the actual cause of our big bang and universe.
I actually agree with DT on the universe being in a blackhole, except for I have doubts about string theory, and I actually like the yo-yo universe more than I like a static universe. Because, predictions about black holes suggest that they actually eventually evaporate completely, which would fit with theoretical black hole collapse with the emission of hawking radiation. Alternatively the big bang could be a worm hole, but the problem is no one can really propose how to get matter back across the white hole and out the black hole on the other side.
EDIT: Oops, new thread.
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Back to this topic, my dad was also a renounced mormon, my mom went to church a few times, probably mormon church, her family was less religious and all of her living relatives are not at all. Dad's family is still mormon, but aside from hurtful comments about my life choices, we all get along all right.
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Not to do with god, or black holes - but - I've been suspicious for a while of any religion that says - god(s) is(are) all powerful, unknowable, and forever - but, not to worry! We've got god(s) all figured out! And we can speak for god(s)! Here are god(s)' rules, this is the word of god(s).
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Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
Not to do with god, or black holes - but - I've been suspicious for a while of any religion that says - god(s) is(are) all powerful, unknowable, and forever - but, not to worry! We've got god(s) all figured out! And we can speak for god(s)! Here are god(s)' rules, this is the word of god(s).
Hello,
I agree with you, Kiki. It bothers me when men claim to speak with the authority of Gods. I much prefer the philosopher priest, who admits imperfection of understanding and walks beside you in trying to puzzle out meaning. Rather than the priest-king who claims to be the mouth of God and the conduit of his will on Earth.
--Anthony
_______________________________________________
"In every war, the state enacts a tax of freedom upon the citizenry. The unspoken promise is that the tax shall be revoked at war's end. Endless war holds no such promise. Hence, Eternal War is Eternal Slavery." --Admiral Robert J. Henner
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Quote:What some people call an internal moral compass, other people call "the voice in their head". How many crazy people said "god" told 'em to do it?
What's less obvious is how many good decisions were made by such internal moral compasses, and how many bad actions were taken by those who either lack them, or ignore them.
If I have belief, it is that the universe is real, that we must make our own moral judgments, and that internal voice which many people rely on tends to be as often wrong as right. Why put all of this on some conveniently (for us) un-locatable being? I think that's just a way to evade responsibility.
Anyway, that's not helpful to the discussion, so carry on.
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Hey Anthony,
I agree with what you eventually said about how God would not command you to do something sinful, but that some other (demonic) entity could. I can't think of where that biblical reference is off hand. Paul briefly mentions in 2 Cor 11 that "Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light", but I'm thinking there is another verse in 1John or Peter that talks about how God would not order us to sin...
As far as Abraham sacrificing Isaac, it would be worth looking up some online concordances for some explanation. Some of the relevant verses are Genesis 22:12-14 12 “Do not lay a hand on the boy,” he said. “Do not do anything to him. Now I know that you fear God, because you have not withheld from me your son, your only son.”
13 Abraham looked up and there in a thicket he saw a ram[a] caught by its horns. He went over and took the ram and sacrificed it as a burnt offering instead of his son. 14 So Abraham called that place The LORD Will Provide. And to this day it is said, “On the mountain of the LORD it will be provided.”
A neat thing about this is how it foreshadows how God himself would later "provide" by sacrificing his own son for humanity just as he provides a ram to be offered up instead of Isaac.
Also, in the New Testament (Hebrews 11:17-19), Paul praises Abraham for his faith and also gives a possible insight into Abraham's thought process:
17 By faith Abraham, when God tested him, offered Isaac as a sacrifice. He who had embraced the promises was about to sacrifice his one and only son, 18 even though God had said to him, “It is through Isaac that your offspring will be reckoned.”[c] 19 Abraham reasoned that God could even raise the dead, and so in a manner of speaking he did receive Isaac back from death."
God had already promised Abraham that his descendents would be as numerous as the stars and that Isaac would be crucial in God's plan towards redeeming humanity. Abraham believed God's promise, and so was able to take the leap of faith and offer Isaac as a sacrifice. Again, if Paul's reasoning is sound, there is another hint at what God would do to redeem humanity (have Jesus rise from the dead).
By the way, I think it is fine to have questions and doubts about God and the Bible (I sure do), but hopefully those questions and doubts give a person motivation to pursue God more and seek answers. That being said, there is something valuable about having faith and knowing that you won't get all the answers... Christianity has its share of paradoxes like that...
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Interestingly, none of my voices particularly govern morality, but day-to-day decisions and struggles.
I do have a moral reaction, but it's more of a "this is so wrong" gut feeling, or maybe some (to me) righteous anger. And I'll occasionally get the warm fuzzies if I see someone else doing something nice.
Unfortunately, this only means I only think I know how not to do wrong, and I have no idea how to do right.
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