1 Marine vs. 30 Cops (the Marine Wins!)
POSTED BY: Kwicko
UPDATED: Sunday, October 30, 2011 16:52
VIEWED: 2913
PAGE 3 of 4
Sorry Frem, but I see the Oathkeepers as fringers, almost a militia cult, and a pretty paranoid one at that. JMHO.
On the subject of the Marines, anyone see this?Quote:
The Marines have arrived.
Last week, amidst the frothing sea of protesters in New York, assembling to protest what they see as rampant greed and political corruption, Marine Sgt. Shamar Thomas, an Iraq War Veteran, started a fire that has suddenly begun to grow and rage. As the Marine angrily stood up for protesters who were allegedly being aggressively arrested by riot police, he reminded the standing authorities, who looked stunned as they listened to the his frustrated and furious rant, that they were not "in a war zone."
"Leave these people alone," he was heard shouting. "These are US citizens! Stop hurting these people, man! Why are you doing this to our people?" He continued, emphasizing his confusion at the seemingly unbalanced reaction to a peaceful demonstration: "I've been to Iraq for 14 months for my people... They don't have guns! ...Why are you hurting these people? It doesn't make any sense... There is no honor in this!"
In the wake of this outburst of raw frustration, those of the group now known as OccupyMARINES, whose members had been cautiously monitoring the situation in New York since the first day of protest, began to take a stand against perceived police brutality against peaceful assemblers. An estimated 20,000 non-active Marine Veterans have decided to band together and form the aforementioned group, with the stated purpose of supporting and protecting the growing movement, offering "organization, direction, supply and logistics, and leadership... especially for the oncoming winter months."
Asking that no individual be granted special recognition, in keeping with the traditions of the Marine Corp and the overall sentiment of the movement, the group spoke with me as one, saying that they intend to "stop the brutality used against demonstrators... with tact and respect." Beyond this basic intention of protection, the group also hopes to "diminish what we believe to be the 1 percenter's attempt to discredit what OWS was attempting to achieve by expressing, or influencing, public opinion with such excerpts as: The OWS participants are unemployed, hippies, or college kids looking for a handout; They are anarchists; and They are a movement organized by the 1% for control purposes.
"Our initial goal by coming forward was to legitimize the OWS argument that should America continue down the path currently set forth, America will eventually cease to exist. OccupyMARINES wants America to understand her military, though employed at the time by the Federal government, are Americans that have freely elected to defend her, to sacrifice individual life should it be required, and will not stand idly by as the 1% continues to rip out the heart of America."
It is important for those outside the movement to be aware that no member of OccupyMARINES is an actively serving member of the armed forces, nor are any a member of the Individual Ready Reserves (IRR.) Additionally, the group has set forth a strict set of guidelines with regards to dress code, in keeping with the requirements of the military uniform code. They will not be in dress uniform, but will be organizing "blouses which identify branch affliliation affixed with an OWS logo for shirts and sweatshirts..." The group's dress code, in keeping with the tradition of military precision, goes on to outline exactly what each member should wear, down the the brand and color, so as to be identified easily as part of OccupyMARNES.
"Should non-active military supporters present themselves at demonstrator groups in military dress uniform, we ask that they do not actively participate in group activities. We will honor our military uniforms and the sacrifices of our brother&ap
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...I just wigged myself out again. ._. Paranoia is getting to me.
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You said that in the other thread, too. I still don't get why this should make you feel paranoid. If anything gave ME paranoia, it was all the talk of revolution and "second-amendment solutions" put forth by the Tea Party. The OWS people support PEACEFUL civil dsobedience; as it says, they want to CHANGE the system, not destroy it. So I don't understand where paranoia comes in.
Unless you believe the politicos who say the OWS group is gonna come into your homes and kill you, but I KNOW you're smarter than that!
Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off 
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Frem, that sounds pretty cool. I liked that list of things a lot. The only one that brought little warning bells up in my head was no. 5 about sacession, because it makes me think of the Civil War and saceeding so you have the right to own slaves, which I know you don't agree with the slavery thing, I don't think anyone normal does. I think you're pro states rights though and that's why you think that one's important. But the rest of them sounded totally cool to me. And because someone rolls with this list is no reason to take kids away, it has nothing to do with giving kids food, love, etc. so only mean folk would probably think was okay.
"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya
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Quote:
Sorry Frem, but I see the Oathkeepers as fringers, almost a militia cult, and a pretty paranoid one at that. JMHO.
And that's the saddest part of it, really - the idea that those very few active military personnel who actually TAKE THE OATH OF SERVICE SERIOUSLY are regarded by most Americans as a "fringe" or "cult" group.
If this is the consensus of the country - that upholding the Constitution relegates one to "fringe" or "cult" status - then America is already lost.
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Niki, I find them not-entirely-trustworthy and a little on the creepy side too, especially since a lot of em are still workin off that cult-like military mindset...
But, you use the tools you got, even if they're flawed, you know ?
Thing with this is, back in the day when they were "testing the waters", asking soldiers if they would do these things and then railroading or running off those who said they would not - and mind you the whole training regimen began to change at that point away from marksmanship and soldiering to more physical conditioning and indoctrination, they realized their little plans would FAIL if even one-in-twenty would fire blue-on-blue to prevent it, so they needed to refine the whole works in order to make SURE the drones would "obey orders"... ANY orders.
Lip service aside, the current training involves endless little tests of that, starting off small and getting progressively more nasty, to ENSURE that ANY ORDER, NO MATTER WHAT, *WILL* be obeyed - anyone who balks is washed out in training these days, and even back then I was brigged repeatedly and damn near kicked out for having "issues" with illegal orders and only really saved from that when they needed someone capable of independent thought and action in case they needed to run supplies to units where convoy or airdrop was suicidal - and given how they grind out anything remotely resembling critical thought, independence or personal initiative out of them in training, they *needed* me... else I woulda been sent packing as "personality incompatible with military service".
So anyhows these days our military "training" which is still based on musket-line tactics, primarily involves sleep deprivation, physical conditioning, and heaps and heaps of indoctrination - i.e. flat out brainwashing, and particularly of a type refined and tested in the hellcamps before being applied to our troops.
Damn right I don't trust them, but nor do I feel any particular regret about what'll HAPPEN to them when they stand to, as about maybe less than half actually will, when the rubber meets the road, cause sometimes the best use of a dangerous, untrustworthy resource is to USE IT UP.
I'd rather have them fighting each other than all of em against us - I know that sounds harsh, but it is what it is.
Essentially what we've done here is taken that conditioning, that brainwashing, and exploited a loophole in it in order to turn these hoo-rahs against those who'd use them to oppress us, since the very act of brainwashing them gave them loyalty to something (The Constitution) which the administrations, former and current, OBVIOUSLY have no respect for.
Trust them ? Oh hell no - I know them, what they are, too well to do so.
But use this to essentially hold them to their duty to protect the people of this country no matter what it costs the poor deluded bastards ?
Oh hell yes.
-Frem
I do not serve the Blind God.
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No, Mike, it's not that they take the oath seriously. It's that they make such a big deal of it, wrap themselves around it, so tightly, and even more that they believe in conspiracies which their oaths might conflict with. For example:
We will NOT obey any order to blockade American cities, thus turning them into giant concentration camps.
We will NOT obey orders to assist or support the use of any foreign troops on U.S. soil against the American people to “keep the peace” or to “maintain control."
From their website:Quote:
If none of that makes you uncomfortable, so be it. I can see using them as a tool, as Frem suggests, but that's about all.
"The time is now near at hand which must probably determine, whether Americans are to be, Freemen, or Slaves; whether they are to have any property they can call their own; whether their Houses, and Farms, are to be pillaged and destroyed, and they consigned to a State of Wretchedness from which no human efforts will probably deliver them. The fate of unborn Millions will now depend, under God, on the Courage and Conduct of this army" - Gen. George Washington, to his troops before the battle of Long Island
Such a time is near at hand again. The fate of unborn millions will now depend, under God, on the Courage and Conduct of this Army - and this Marine Corps, This Air Force, This Navy and the National Guard units of these sovereign states.
...
In addition, we affirm that the purpose of the Second Amendment is to preserve the military power of the people so that they will, in the last resort, have effective final recourse to arms and to the God of Hosts in the face of tyranny.
.....
We expect that sweeping warrantless searches of homes and vehicles, under some pretext, will be the means used to attempt to disarm the people.
.....
Any attempt to apply the laws of war to American civilians, under any pretext, such as against domestic “militia” groups the government brands “domestic terrorists,” is an act of war and an act of treason.
.....
Such tactics were repeated by the Nazis in the Warsaw Ghetto, and by the Imperial Japanese in Nanking, turning entire cities into death camps. Any such order to disarm and confine the people of an American city will be an act of war and thus an act of treason.
.....
And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of Divine Providence, we mutually affirm our oath and pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes, and our sacred Honor. Oath Keepers
I don't see any need for there to be a group of military and law-enforcement people who feel the necessity of making a point of saying they'll keep the oaths they swore, because they think the government is gonna enslave us all or turn our cities into concentration camps, etc.
An oath is an oath; if one needs to join a group centered around it and call oneself an "Oath Keeper", I wonder about them.
Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off
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Honestly, that stuff that Niki put up makes sense to me, call me a conspiratorialist or whatever. The only part that confused me was the connection they make between the second amendment and Divine Hosts, that was confusing and I fail to see the connection. But the rest of it made sense. Now, I'm pro second amendment, but Divine Hosts, connection not computing.
"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya
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I'm going into criminal justice tech at my college, and i have to say i agree with that Marine. I could give a few points that would support my position, and even maybe a few for the other side, in the interests of fairness. But it boils down to this, people are seeing a problem in this country, there peacefully protesting, and yet there being assaulted, and accosted by those who have sworn to protect them. Now i have utmost respect for Military and Police servicemen and women, seeing as theyre signing there lives away for us, hell the female i want to date is going into bootcamp in June, but these police should re-think there stand in NYC
"Mom, he has her chip. He has her."
John Connor,"Born To Run", TSCC EP 2x22
"We mustn't over stimulate young minds. Das ist verboten!" - Rappy
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Quote:Damn right. Well said.
Originally posted by Kwicko:
If this is the consensus of the country - that upholding the Constitution relegates one to "fringe" or "cult" status - then America is already lost.
Niki, Oathkeepers say what they say because they have already seen infringements on the Constitution on US citizens. They have already seen what the US govt does to non-US citizens abroad (concentration camps, etc). It is not a tremendous leap to imagine the govt trying the same tactics at home.
They are simply reiterating that, if the govt ever tries that same shit at home, they WILL NOT comply. They are saying, "Don't go there. Don't even think about it."
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