Occupy Wall Street Protesters are going to be getting Protection, from the US Marines.

POSTED BY: m52nickerson
UPDATED: Tuesday, October 11, 2011 20:24
VIEWED: 2767
PAGE 2 of 2

PREV PAGE 1 2

RIONAEIRE

Monday, October 10, 2011 4:32 AM

I wish them every good thing in the world, they should be able to stand up and make a statement too if they want and its cool that they are helping their countrymen, which is the point after all. I hope that people see that as an honor.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

NEWOLDBROWNCOAT

Monday, October 10, 2011 2:06 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by jameron4eva:
Quote:
Originally posted by NewOldBrownCoat:
I'm proud of those vets, young and old, given that most veterans and vets groups are loyalist and conservative. Figures that they would be, given that loyalty, obedience, and patriotism are all necessary military traits, taught in boot camps to impressionable young men: those are NECESSARY attitudes of military survival and victory.

Glad to see that some of them have the individuality and courage to step up to actually serve not even The People, but the real folks.
Good on 'em.
,

You forget the females that enlist in the military. One of my friends, someone dear to me, when she get's out of high school will be leaving for boot camp in the Marine Corps. It's not just the men that are trained, but the women as well. And frankly, female Marines scare me more than the males.

I think this is a good move though, because these men, (and the women who are involved as well), are doing what they signed there lives away for, and watched there friends die right next to them, for. Not the money holders, but the people, and the constitution of these United States. In a time when loyalty has become an "outmoded" idea, these men are showing loyalty to there fellow citizen, and country.

"Mom, he has her chip. He has her."
John Connor,"Born To Run", TSCC EP 2x22

"We mustn't over stimulate young minds. Das ist verboten!" - Rappy

You're right, and I'm sorry. I could say in my defense that I only used the word "men" once- everywhere else my terms were gender-neutral-- but I won't-- I was clearly thinking "men".

Guess I'm just an old male chauvinist pig in my heart- I don't believe that ANY woman should HAVE to fight, until EVERY man is already fighting. Women should be protected and preserved from such ugliness at all cost. I obviously haven't dealt with the notion of women volunteering for such situations.

Some day we'll have to kick off a women's lib thread here. I'm not so simple minded as to believe that biology is destiny, but I do come pretty close to that, deep down inside. But it would be a distraction in this thread.

NIKI2

Monday, October 10, 2011 6:45 PM

Quote:
Women should be protected and preserved from such ugliness at all cost.

Brrrr. You do realize that is the rationale behind a lot of how Muslims treat their women, don't you?

Women fight in the military in Israel, and I think that's right. If we were ACTUALLY protecting our country, I see no reason women shouldn't fight just as hard to do so. Given we aren't, and haven't been in any of our memories, I still think women have every bit as much right to serve in the military as men and gay men do. I, for one, certainly feel no need to be "protected" and "preserved"--that means some male is making my decisions for me, and I'd fight like hell to keep THAT from happening!

Do you feel the same about police? I can't help but wondering, and wondering, if you DO feel differently, why.

Yes, you are old school. I consider it very nice if an individual man (OR woman) wants to hold a door open for me or help pick up my packages or whatever, but when it comes to doing everything men do, I want that right. Sure, physically most of us are weaker than most men, but there are different kinds of strengths. Until a man can have a baby, go through 9 months of misery and pop something the size of a toaster out their rears, I will never be convinced that women are the "weaker sex".

Personally, I have no desire to discuss or debate womens' lib. I don't think it should even be an ISSUE, and I can clearly imagine where it would go, given some of our members. I don't want to have to read that kind of crap.

Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off

RIONAEIRE

Tuesday, October 11, 2011 12:33 AM

I think its fine for women to be in the military as long as they meet the strength and stammina requirements and can fight well. I don't think people should be let in if they can't do the job. That being said there are so many jobs in the military that there are a lot of choices about which jobs someone is suited to doing and if someone can get through basic without exceptions being made then they should be given some choice about which jobs they train for/do.

I think what New Old meant is that he wants to protect his mother, sisters, daughters, lovers etc. so they don't have to deal with that stuff and the horrors of war. I understand why sometimes talk like what he said can be a little alarming because some people use it to justify bad things, but I'm pretty sure that he only meant well. But women can be warriors too as long as they can meet the requirements they should go for it if its what they want in life. I consider police work the same, though I, as a bystander, would think that being a warrior is harder and more strenuous, but I know they're both a challenge physically but they're especially hard emotionally.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

MAL4PREZ

Tuesday, October 11, 2011 1:32 AM

I just caught this thread - does anyone know how it went with the uniforms?

Very cool idea. Go him. I wish I'd seen the folk in uniform and how they interacted with the protesters. From the vibe I picked up there, (I went by again yesterday), I bet it was all piles of respect and appreciation. Must have been beautiful.

My take on the lib issue: I am a woman, I am not a delicate flower. I can handle ugly.

I don't mean to beat on NewOld, because he seems a decent guy. And I know the world he's coming from. I came from that world too. They'd have had me stuck in one place because a young woman shouldn't drive alone on the interstate. (This was in the 1980s in the midwest.) They'd have had me behind locked doors every night by 8 because a female grad student shouldn't walk alone at night. (This was Boston in the 90s.)

And yes, people did actually tell me to limit myself that way.

How in the hell can someone live life as a free human being like that? I'll take risk and ugliness any day, cause that's the price of freedom. I have no patience with folk who take that away from me, like I'm some pet bird to be protected.

Sorry, Newold. Really don't mean to bash you. This issue just burns me a bit.

-----------------------------------------------
hmm-burble-blah, blah-blah-blah, take a left

NEWOLDBROWNCOAT

Tuesday, October 11, 2011 7:14 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Niki2:
Quote:
Women should be protected and preserved from such ugliness at all cost.
Brrrr. You do realize that is the rationale behind a lot of how Muslims treat their women, don't you?

Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off

Gorrammit, wrote a nice reply to this very early this AM and it seems to have vanished.

Can't re-create it, not gonna try. The basis of it is that, yes, I know men everywhere have used that argument to opress women. I know that's a line to walk very carefully.

I believe that individual women should have even MORE freedom of choice than men, freedom to chose to do whatever they want, without coercion from men or society. I do draw the line at bank robbery and spouse-cide, but not much else.

Obviously, as I stated above somewhere, I haven't dealt with the issue of women volunteering for combat duty. And I do make a distinction with police work-- police work isn't inherently placing your life at risk in the basic performance of the job-- military combat is.

I am male chauvinist pig enough to subscribe to the argument that biology is destiny, somewhat, way down inside on the irrational level somewhere. Means " women and children first", to SOME degree; and I'll give up my seat on a lifeboat, or maybe even a bus, for one. Doesn't mean a woman can't do something she wants to do, just because she's a woman and it's dangerous.

NIKI2

Tuesday, October 11, 2011 7:49 PM

Riona,

Quote:
I think what New Old meant is that he wants to protect his mother, sisters, daughters, lovers etc. so they don't have to deal with that stuff and the horrors of war.

That's not what he said, nor did he agree with it later, nor does what he wrote later indicate that. I understand where he's coming from, it's just that, as a woman, I reject it out of hand. And of COURSE being a policewoman is putting your life on the line every day, NewOld; just look at the world around you, the cops who get shot for pulling someone over to give them a ticket, etc. While violence doesn't happen as OFTEN as it does in war, the possibility is always there, and moreso it seems every day.

I believe anyone should do any job they are qualified for and capable of, regardless of ANYTHING else, from gender to race to religion and everything else. It's the only way you have a truly equal society, and it's FAR from true today, in America and many other places.

I'll give up my seat to ANYONE who looks like they need it, and have for men with canes, pregnant women, etc. I've ridden a motorcycle since the '60s, and back then I actually had to contend with guys in cars trying to run me off the road--for no other reason than that I was obviously female and apparently they thought I shouldn't be on a bike. Now I see women on motorcycles every day, and I celebrate it.

I will never, ever accept that women should treated any differently than men...how I wish they WERE, given all the old white men in the government who want to decide FOR us whether we should bear children or not! Women still earn less in jobs than men and are discriminated against in so many other ways...we have a long way to go, and I hope, NewOld, that you can embrace the concept of women as equal to men before you die. I don't care how old anyone is, there's nobody living today who can claim things should be the way they were and have my respect (which I know you weren't).

Hear, hear, Mal4:

Quote:
How in the hell can someone live life as a free human being like that? I'll take risk and ugliness any day, cause that's the price of freedom. I have no patience with folk who take that away from me, like I'm some pet bird to be protected.

NewOld, I'm not sure what you meant by

Quote:
I believe that individual women should have even MORE freedom of choice than men.

but I disagree with that as well. Neither deserves special treatment. I THINK you didn't mean it the way it sounded, from what you said afterwards, I think you were referring to "without coercion from men or society". But equality only works if things are EQUAL, no special treatment either way.

As to "biology is destiny", I'll just say

and I'll fight anyone who believes otherwise!

(so there!)

Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off

NEWOLDBROWNCOAT

Tuesday, October 11, 2011 8:24 PM

Okay, I give up. No way I'm gonna win this one.

Reckon I'm just about down to ritual suicide.

My MCP streak extends to not even making women mad, if I can avoid it, and that ain't gonna work.

Guess I'd better go stand in line with Simon, Jayne and Mal, as one of those guys who's clueless about women.

I'll leave it with 2 thoughts:

1. Nobody, not even me, should coerce a woman into doing anything. To even try is unacceptable.

2. I've been married, for over 35 years, to a woman who was one of the originators of the Women's Liberation movement here in Long Beach. I've been lucky that she accepts me as much as she does.

PREV PAGE 1 2