Nobel Prize-Winning Physicist Resigns Over Global Warming
POSTED BY: AURaptor
UPDATED: Monday, September 19, 2011 18:34
VIEWED: 4620
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Uhm - do I need to say the earth is overall 0.572 C warmer not 0.773 C warmer in order to say it is warmer? Really? You are going to hang your argument on minute differences in amount of 'warmer' because slightly more warmer or slightly less warmer somehow nullifies 'warmer'?
If we believe in climate change, then I believe we would both say that decimals can make something of a difference, wouldn't we?
Data and results are not and should not ever be incontrovertible, and we must be willing to refine, not just accept what's already been done. Otherwise our understanding will remain incomplete. Just like gravity and dark matter. We can't be afraid to question.
I didn't say nullifies warmer, by the way. Argue with ME, not what you want me to say. I'm not any kind of denier.
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"Dr. Giaever was quoted declaring himself a man-made global warming dissenter." http://icecap.us/
In other words, he's not waiting for facts - his mind is made up.
Remember when teachers, public employees, Planned Parenthood, NPR and PBS crashed the stock market, wiped out half of our 401Ks, took trillions in taxpayer funded bailouts, spilled oil in the Gulf of Mexico, gave themselves billions in bonuses, and paid no taxes?
Yeah, me neither....
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That wasn't directed at you NOBC. Sig thought I said something I didn't, and I was being bitchy about it.
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Sure, 1kiki, but you aren't considering the point Anthony and I made, that he can be wrong about everything else, he can even be clueless about the field (and he seems to be, as it isn't his field at all). But he can still have a point about science not being incontrovertible.
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"Data and results are not and should not ever be incontrovertible ..."
Unless they are proved wrong, measurements and data tend to stand. The theories behind them may undergo radical revision based on small differences in measured properties.
Remember when teachers, public employees, Planned Parenthood, NPR and PBS crashed the stock market, wiped out half of our 401Ks, took trillions in taxpayer funded bailouts, spilled oil in the Gulf of Mexico, gave themselves billions in bonuses, and paid no taxes?
Yeah, me neither....
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"But he can still have a point about science not being incontrovertible."
But no one is saying 'science' is incontrovertible. Or that global warming being man made is incontrovertible. Or even that it being due to CO2 is incontrovertible. The only claim made is that the data show that the earth is incontrovertibly warmer than before. Just like boiling water is incontrovertibly warmer than ice.
The earth is warmer. Warmer than when glaciers around the globe came into being. Warmer than when the boreal forests were established. Warmer than when the permafrost first froze. Warmer than when people first started looking for the 'northwest passage' through Arctic ice. Warmer than when king crabs got isolated from the Antarctic. Warmer.
Exactly where ... how much ... since when ... how quickly ... due to what ... these are all important questions that can only be answered by painstakingly accounting for all those small discrepancies. But the fact of warmer - well, that is a fact.
Remember when teachers, public employees, Planned Parenthood, NPR and PBS crashed the stock market, wiped out half of our 401Ks, took trillions in taxpayer funded bailouts, spilled oil in the Gulf of Mexico, gave themselves billions in bonuses, and paid no taxes?
Yeah, me neither....
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"Unless they are proved wrong"
Hello,
Incontrovertible things cannot be proved wrong. That's what incontrovertible means.
Unquestionable, irrefutable.
So if there's an unless... if there's any unless...
Speaking of which...
I remember reading once that water can boil and freeze simultaneously. Crazy stuff.
--Anthony
_______________________________________________
"In every war, the state enacts a tax of freedom upon the citizenry. The unspoken promise is that the tax shall be revoked at war's end. Endless war holds no such promise. Hence, Eternal War is Eternal Slavery." --Admiral Robert J. Henner
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"Unless they are proved wrong, measurements and data tend to stand."
Okay, perhaps conclusions is the better word. Standing on the shoulders of giants and whatnot. But in some cases you can still remeasure, which can be important for verification.
"The only claim made is that the data show that the earth is incontrovertibly warmer than before. Just like boiling water is incontrovertibly warmer than ice. "
Erg, this is hard because I agree with the sentiment, but I can't agree with the incontrovertible thing...
And no, boiling water is not always warmer than ice, that's not a very good analogy.
"The earth is warmer. Warmer than when glaciers around the globe came into being. Warmer than when the boreal forests were established. Warmer than when the permafrost first froze. Warmer than when people first started looking for the 'northwest passage' through Arctic ice. Warmer than when king crabs got isolated from the Antarctic. Warmer."
And here you're talking about some things that actually happened well before humans and agriculture started affecting things. I mean, again, I agree with the sentiment, it's just committing unquestionably to an idea is a good way to end up burned if it turns out not quite right or in need of refinement for better understanding. I have my opinion of what's going on, but my policy is to remain neutral, and propose solutions that work no matter the actual situation.
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"Unless they are proved wrong"
There is always a small chance - no matter how infinitesimally small - that something will fall away from urth. That boiling water will get hotter while the ice cube in it will get colder. That all the temperature measurements will be found to be wrong because the statistical errors found in all measurements just all happen to line up in the same direction - every time. Not a really big chance, mind you. Do you want to hang your skepticism on that?
Remember when teachers, public employees, Planned Parenthood, NPR and PBS crashed the stock market, wiped out half of our 401Ks, took trillions in taxpayer funded bailouts, spilled oil in the Gulf of Mexico, gave themselves billions in bonuses, and paid no taxes?
Yeah, me neither....
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