Why Firefly deserved to die
POSTED BY: xed
UPDATED: Thursday, December 19, 2024 02:34
VIEWED: 28595
PAGE 5 of 9
Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
Thank god for no holodecks!
Here Here!
I grew up with a trekie... although my mother will never admit to being one, she records EVERY single episode that airs, even if she has watched it 90 million times. (she has about 10 tapes that she cycles through, so eventually, she does record over them with another episode she's seen 90 million times.) Every time I go home to visit I get stuck watching TNG and DS9 and Voyager with her... then when I say "ok, I'm gonna go..." she says "but I barely got to see you..." And I just want to shout "THEN TURN OFF THE CRAP TREK!" (not a fan, in case I was vague). I don't think I would like this show at all if it was as polished and righteous as Star Trek.
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No, I'm a rebel. You're an idiot. Give the lot of us a bad name.
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Quote:
Originally posted by FireFlea:
- using guns that would be considered antique even in 2002, let alone the distant future.
Ok, I'd like to address two points. Before I do so, I want anyone reading this to realize I am heavily biased in Firefly's favor for reason's of my own. That being said, to my critique.
One thing I don't think people appreciate is the sheer distance between places in a given galaxy. At our current technology level, it takes months for an unmanned spacecraft to reach Mars. And it take 4 minutes for a radio signal to reach there. This is a giant place. In a place where space travel is easily feasible (the technology level and time of firefly) shipping will still be a very big problem. Information between worlds is meager at best and you'll see the only way the crew of Serenity can gain information on a planet is checking existing bulletins on the planet by a planet's authorities as was seen in the episode Safe. Also one must bear in mind that the trips between planets (and so between episodes) take weeks... perhaps months. With all these circumstances in a rather large universe (we've seen what... 5 habitable planets already?) Shipping items between worlds is VERY difficult and thus makes realistic that Older technology exists on many worlds. That's also why Malcolm Reynold's partially pursues the job of a trader. Merchandise can pay for a lot. And as far as the "antique" weaponry Mal and company carry...
Those weapons are some of the sturdiest weaponry ever created. Possibly not the most elegant but sturdy. Weaponry these days are incredibly fragile, barring things such as the AK-47 which is designed to be able to be dropped from a vehicle moving over 40mph and still be reused. The older projectile weaponry make sure that the crew's weapons will work always. And higher tech weapons still exist too. As noted, the Alliance Energy weapons, but you see how well Jayne liked those. Also are the rifles seen wielded by the Alliance Corps in "Train Job" and Finally we see Jayne's Vera. Vera is not a weak weapon. Or low tech. Next, projectile weaponry have an incredible advantage over Energy. Harnessing energy, though ubiquitous, isn't easy nor efficient. What's more, energy weapons will also dissipate given distance, even in the cold vacuum of space. A projectile weapon is easy to restock and simple. Furthermore a projectile weapon's range is limited only by friction and gravity. In a vacuum of space (again exampled by Vera) a bullet will lose little to no velocity and fly on uninhibited. Though explosive charges don't work in vacuum (the driving punch for most bullets) I'm sure many "Rail gun" or magnetized weaponry have been created in Firefly. Keep watching.
Thus ends my dissertation on the world of Firefly.
Gaheris
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Quote:
With all these circumstances in a rather large universe (we've seen what... 5 habitable planets already?)
Big difference between a "universe" and a system of planets.
Quote:
Shipping items between worlds is VERY difficult and thus makes realistic that Older technology exists on many worlds.
Your argument falls apart by the fact that they transferred an entire ship full of live cattle, without paperwork, without red tape...they just picked them up and off they went. And the trip took several weeks if I remember right. If a ship full of live cattle can survive in a ship for weeks, I imagine the transport of lifeless information and/or technology (legally or illegaly) would be pretty simple. And if transporting technology/info is such a scarce and difficult thing, then why are they taking cattle jobs instead of profitable technology smuggling jobs? Just a thought...or two.
Also, your points about projectile weapons are well taken. They are cheap and reliable. I agree that backwater worlds would use projectile weapons, but not ones that look like Colt 45s six shooters from the 1800s.
IMO they would be projectile weapons, but more high tech: 100s of rounds, armor piecing, explosive, smart bullets, tranqs, etc, etc...not six freakin' shots of warm lead. This extrapolation isn't far fetched since we can do all this NOW and we haven't colonized numerous planets or mastered spaceflight with artificial gravity that keep cattle from floating around the hold. 
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Quote:
Originally posted by LivingImpaired:
I do not turn a blind eye. I just happen to like the things that you consider flaws. Having a different opinion on a topic doesn't mean I can't see fault in the show.
Thank you. I was going to say the same thing.
I found the Western/Scifi crossover to be curious and disconcerting for about the 10 minutes it took me to fall in love with the characters.
And I love the music on the show - it's a very eclectic mix, not just western.
I have friends who don't like the westerny part either, but they've all fallen in love with the show. In fact, I have a group of friends who used to get together once a month from all over the San Francisco bay area to watch Andromeda. The last two months everyone is saying "Bring Firefly tapes!"
I think you could place these characters in just about any setting, and because they're compelling and the writing is good, you'd still like them - or at least I would.
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I agree with UFO on some things. If transportation is so easy that Mal can ship a whole cargo-hold of relatively low-value cattle, then the benefits of technology should be everywhere. (I would have imagined that they would be shipping frozen embryos with a few cows to be implanted later.)
That's what I mean by imagination. A series of worlds where some are high-tech and some are low-tech is not only possible it's likely, given that's what we see in our own history. But INTEGRATING them into a whole, understanding the choke-points (Transportation costs? Monopolies? Lack of infrastructure?) will take a lot of work.
Back to the original arument- it's the show's "flaws" that make it interesting. There is SO MUCH room in the premise for great stories- and big audiences- that it would be a shame to have Firefly disappear.
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Given the typical sci-fi geeks penchant for debating pointless technical minutiae, perhaps, after reading this thread, its not so hard to see why Firefly had to die. Jesus, what a bunch of petty non-sense.
....
....
sorry just feeling a bit frustrated. Firefly's light is fading and "Fastlane" and "American Idol" march merrily along. People are sheep
SergeantX
"..and here's to all the dreamers, may our open hearts find rest." -- Nanci Griffith
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Now for my Defense
Quote:
Originally posted by UFO:
Big difference between a "universe" and a system of planets.
Aye. System of planets = Galaxy. Galaxy= big. still lots of distance.
Quote:
Your argument falls apart by the fact that they transferred an entire ship full of live cattle, without paperwork, without red tape...they just picked them up and off they went. And the trip took several weeks if I remember right. If a ship full of live cattle can survive in a ship for weeks, I imagine the transport of lifeless information and/or technology (legally or illegaly) would be pretty simple. And if transporting technology/info is such a scarce and difficult thing, then why are they taking cattle jobs instead of profitable technology smuggling jobs? Just a thought...or two.
True. Look at the level of Technology on the two planets which the cattle are transferred between though. In Shindig, the tech level is possibly around ours, maybe higher, but with a slightly archaic touch. Safe however, has a REALLY low tech area, classic western. Mal and Co. aren't part of an official shipping company and the livestock were wanted shipped rather underhand rather than over the counter. Smuggling. True, transferring dead tech could be easy, but profitable? with month's or possibly weeks between shipments, people don't want things that break down easily. Hence lets go for the tried and true. BTW, the cattle job WAS a smuggling job. High profile smuggling but nonetheless.
Quote:
Also, your points about projectile weapons are well taken. They are cheap and reliable. I agree that backwater worlds would use projectile weapons, but not ones that look like Colt 45s six shooters from the 1800s.
Riiight, I already addressed some of these. "six freaking shots of warm lead" are very easy to produce. A gunhand on our world could also be a decent self-armorer. Easy reload, easy supply. No need to ship from core to get it. Armor piercing? Look no farther than Vera. Though bullets aren't smart they can't be said to be lead shot. Don't know how many rounds Vera has either. Feasibility of a 100 round handgun however isn't good. Standard weaponry we have is 30 rnds for a rifle. Again, most owners of weapons are PRIVATE owners probably not too rich. Alliance soldiers have decent in train job. Besides, we have many guns that look like colt six shooters now.
Hope that answers some from my POV
Gaheris
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Now for my Defense
Quote:
Originally posted by UFO:
Big difference between a "universe" and a system of planets.
Aye. System of planets = Galaxy. Galaxy= big. still lots of distance.
Quote:
Your argument falls apart by the fact that they transferred an entire ship full of live cattle, without paperwork, without red tape...they just picked them up and off they went. And the trip took several weeks if I remember right. If a ship full of live cattle can survive in a ship for weeks, I imagine the transport of lifeless information and/or technology (legally or illegaly) would be pretty simple. And if transporting technology/info is such a scarce and difficult thing, then why are they taking cattle jobs instead of profitable technology smuggling jobs? Just a thought...or two.
True. Look at the level of Technology on the two planets which the cattle are transferred between though. In Shindig, the tech level is possibly around ours, maybe higher, but with a slightly archaic touch. Safe however, has a REALLY low tech area, classic western. Mal and Co. aren't part of an official shipping company and the livestock were wanted shipped rather underhand rather than over the counter. Smuggling. True, transferring dead tech could be easy, but profitable? with month's or possibly weeks between shipments, people don't want things that break down easily. Hence lets go for the tried and true. BTW, the cattle job WAS a smuggling job. High profile smuggling but nonetheless.
Quote:
Also, your points about projectile weapons are well taken. They are cheap and reliable. I agree that backwater worlds would use projectile weapons, but not ones that look like Colt 45s six shooters from the 1800s.
Riiight, I already addressed some of these. "six freaking shots of warm lead" are very easy to produce. A gunhand on our world could also be a decent self-armorer. Easy reload, easy supply. No need to ship from core to get it. Armor piercing? Look no farther than Vera. Though bullets aren't smart they can't be said to be lead shot. Don't know how many rounds Vera has either. Feasibility of a 100 round handgun however isn't good. Standard weaponry we have is 30 rnds for a rifle. Again, most owners of weapons are PRIVATE owners probably not too rich. Alliance soldiers have decent in train job. Besides, we have many guns that look like colt six shooters now.
Hope that answers some from my POV
Gaheris
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Quote:
Originally posted by Gaheris:
Feasibility of a 100 round handgun however isn't good.
I'm with Gaheris on this one... I would never in a gazillion years consider myself a person with great gun knowledge, but I do have a partial understand of space (not outerspace, per se, just space in general), weight and size. For 100 rounds to be in the gun, either the gun would have to be very large, the bullets very small, or some combination of the two. A large, heavy gun would not be very effective for carrying around or the quick draw or holding pointed for any amount of time (arm would get tired...). Small bullets may not do enough damage. I used to have a gun-friendly boyfriend, and he took me out and I shot his 22 handgun. He put a clip that had more than normal number of bullets (I want to say 20 or 30... a round number, but it's been years and I don't really remember). Anyway, the clip hung down lower than the handle of the gun. Certainly not something I could have tucked in a standard holster. And 22s are small bullets.
So, No, a 6-shot revolver is certainly something I hope they aren't using in Firefly. But I could very easily accept a 10-12 shot clip.
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I've always meant to do that but I intensely don't want to so I haven't gotten around to it
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Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
I agree with UFO on some things. If transportation is so easy that Mal can ship a whole cargo-hold of relatively low-value cattle, then the benefits of technology should be everywhere. (I would have imagined that they would be shipping frozen embryos with a few cows to be implanted later.)
look at how easy it is to ship things around the planet today...are all the country have the latest technology in everything? NO! So I don't see why it would be different in the future when human has colonised many planet!
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