Meanwhile, back in Libya
POSTED BY: Niki2
UPDATED: Friday, December 13, 2024 01:16
VIEWED: 3095
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Quote:
...and this surprises exactly who?
Six months and more than 17,000 air sorties after it began, NATO's Operation Unified Protector in the skies over Libya grinds on.
What was envisaged in March as a rapid engagement to prevent Moammar Gadhafi's forces from razing Benghazi to the ground has evolved into a long slog. And increasingly NATO operations have dovetailed with those of the rebels -- with the aim of making pro-Gadhafi forces incapable of offensive action.
The initial mandate set out by the United Nations Security Council resolution 1973 was to protect civilians under threat or attack, to enforce an arms embargo on the country and implement a no-fly zone.
"What was initially supposed to be a neutral intervention to protect civilians that were threatened specifically in Benghazi has morphed into being largely a one-sided affair to support the Libyan rebel force to overthrow Gadhafi," says Micah Zenko of the Council on Foreign Relations.
.....
Derek Flood, a journalist and analyst with the Jamestown Foundation, has just spent several weeks in western Libya. "I found the rebels had become almost overly dependent on NATO to the point they wouldn't act without NATO actually softening up the targets first."
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There appears to be growing coordination between NATO and rebel military commanders.
Video footage emerged at the beginning of this month of a column of rebel tanks and pickup trucks, outside the city of Brega in eastern Libya, daubed with orange paint to distinguish them from government forces and ensure they weren't erroneously bombed.
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NATO's mission has shifted in another way. After hitting more than 3,000 military targets -- from ammunition dumps to tanks to radar and command-and-control facilities -- there are not many more left. So it has turned to the regime's infrastructure. The satellite dishes of Libyan state TV were bombed on the grounds that the broadcaster was being used to "incite violence." The radar at Tripoli airport also was taken out, and the sprawling Gadhafi compound in Tripoli has been targeted several times.
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Zenko says the goal from early on has been regime change, and the latest tactic is to try to cut off all economic and outside supplies to make it cease functioning.
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NATO's current mandate in Libya expires at the end of September. Its members may yet be asked to extend it once again. http://www.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/africa/08/19/libya.nato.analysis/index.h
tml?hpt=hp_t1
It seems so strange that it seems like so often when a war "happens", the exterior force going in always thinks it will be some kind of "rapid engagement". I'm assuming, since most people know that it never works out that way, that it's politispeak to say it WILL, so that we'll believe that and as such, approve of the engagement. It makes me wonder just how stupid they think we are...and that, given "the people" always go along with it, how stupid many of us actually ARE!
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Hello,
We are definitely that stupid. And until/unless we see heavy casualties, most people will never notice that we're fighting yet another war.
And when this is all over, if the rebels win their rebellion, I trust they will treat us with the same deference, gratitude, and respect that we show to the French for their vital aid in our revolution.
--Anthony
_______________________________________________
“If you are not free to choose wrongly and irresponsibly, you are not free at all”
Jacob Hornberger
“Freedom is not worth having if it does not connote freedom to err. It passes my comprehension how human beings, be they ever so experienced and able, can delight in depriving other human beings of that precious right.”
Mahatma Gandhi
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Meanwhile, reports say that Qaddafi's son has been captured and the Palace Guard have surrendered. Looks like it's endgame for Qaddafi.
Not going to miss him at all, but I'm not crazy about the way this was done, and it will definitely make for interesting times in the area.
"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill
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And when we install a pliant regime, it will sell us oil and take our dollars in return, sell their tons of gold, and borrow a bazillion dollars from the IMF.
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Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
And when we install a pliant regime, it will sell us oil and take our dollars in return, sell their tons of gold, and borrow a bazillion dollars from the IMF.
Sig, you're really getting this one. I only have one thing to add to that: *Sell us the oil at absurd discount prices, like $3 a barrel. Oh, also, sign our trade treaties.
That's what a ship is, you know - it's not just a keel and a hull and a deck and sails, that's what a ship needs.
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Well, I know that's the *IDEA* behind backing the rebels...
... but what if they have other ideas?
How cheap is that Iraqi oil, for instance?
I'm happy for the people of Libya if ousting Qaddafi brings them more freedom and a better, more representative government that looks out for its people. But I'm leery that it really has a tangible fiscal upside for us. I know the old time-tested methods are still being tried - oust an unfriendly regime, install a puppet, make 'em an offer they can't refuse vis-a-vis trade contracts, and let the corporations hold sway. What I question is whether that's still a valid business model. We seem to be seeing an awful lot of it NOT working out that way lately... Iraq, Afghanistan, Egypt, Syria, Sudan, Somalia...
It's not that such places and their new governments are necessarily HOSTILE to us, but they aren't really willing to just lie down and be our compliant little puppets in most cases, either.
And I say, good for them! After all, if a nation doesn't have its right of self-determination, then it's not by any stretch a free nation, is it? And our whole idea of "spreading democracy" in the area is supposed to mean that these nations are free to not do what we'd like if that's what they desire.
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-14611549
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Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
And when we install a pliant regime, it will sell us oil and take our dollars in return, sell their tons of gold, and borrow a bazillion dollars from the IMF.
And send all the ex-regime leaders to Gitmo.
So is this that "Change we can believe in"?
(Sorry. Couldn't resist
)"Keep the Shiny side up"
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Geezer, you sound like a disappointed lover!
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It's kinda funny; I put this up because we haven't been paying attention to Libya lately (or not much, anyway). One day later it's all over the news, and there have been big breaking events.
Now it's THREE of his sons ( http://www.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/africa/08/22/libya.gadhafi.sons/index.ht
ml?hpt=hp_t1) I was listening to it on the news last night, and yes, it does sound like the end is near.
And yes, I also have the same worries about a post-Ghadafi Libya. Quote:
As to oil interests, I have my doubts:
Tribal rivalries, an east-west divide, a rebel leadership lacking coherence, a shattered economy and the absence of a "civil society" -- these are just a few of the challenges that a post-Gadhafi Libya will face.Quote:
These uprisings and overthrowings aren't guaranteed to work out the way the US--or the West in general--hope. Remember Egypt?
Oil prices were mixed Monday as Moammar Gadhafi's regime appeared to be closer to tottering on the brink of defeat.
Brent oil, which is tied to the European market, dropped 1% to $107.55 a barrel, while U.S. crude prices rose more than 1% to $83.46 a barrel.
The disparity between the two prices is due to the fact that Brent will feel the more immediate impact from Libyan oil coming back online, whereas U.S. prices are more insulated.
Dan Dicker, an oil trader for 25 years and the author of "Oil's Endless Bid: Taming the Unreliable Price of Oil to Secure Our Economy" {said} "I see the price coming down on Brent as more of a knee jerk reaction," said Dicker, estimating that it will take a long time for Libyan oil to flow back into the market. "You're not going to see a barrel of oil from Libya for at least a year." http://money.cnn.com/2011/08/22/markets/oil_libya/index.htm?hpt=hp_t1 Quote:
In March, a set of constitutional amendments that paved the way for elections was overwhelmingly approved in a referendum that drew record numbers of voters. But anger over what many demonstrators saw as the military's loyalty to the core of Mr. Mubarak's government and the slow pace of change led to new mass protests and violence in April.
Economically, Egypt is struggling, as a system whose inequities and lack of opportunities helped topple a government, has now ground to a virtual halt, further wounded by the revolution itself.
The military's 18-member ruling council said it would hand over legislative powers after the parliamentary election in September 2011, and that executive powers would be transferred after the presidential election, which will be held by November. Many of the younger leaders of the protest movement worry that the long established and well organized Muslim Brotherhood could dominate voting, although the Brotherhood insists it does not want to become the ruling party.
The prospect of Egypt’s first open election in the fall has prompted a wide-ranging debate over radically divergent economic proposals. They include deep cuts to the bloated government work force and vast public subsidies, a leftist re-expansion of the state’s role in the economy, and the Muslim Brotherhood’s plan to impose a 7.5 percent income surtax on all Muslims to fulfill their religious mandate to give to charity. But the campaign has also revealed internal divisions within the Brotherhood, as the unifying sense of opposition to a secular dictatorship fades and various factions — including two breakaway political parties and much of the group’s youth — move toward the political center.
Politically, the country remains fragile. In late June, a peaceful protest in Tahrir Square turned into a night of clashes between the police and protesters in which more than 1,000 people were injured. The turmoil, which seemed to take almost everyone by surprise, showed that almost any spark can ignite simmering tensions. Among the protestors, a unity of purpose has given way to a multiplicity of demands, mirroring the divides that
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