Dutch rethink Christianity for a doubtful world
POSTED BY: Niki2
UPDATED: Wednesday, March 11, 2026 00:29
VIEWED: 9348
PAGE 8 of 12
No, not just Mormons, I found this on wikipeda as well.
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Almost all Christian groups regard Jesus as the "Savior and Redeemer", as the Messiah (Greek: Christos; English: Christ) prophesied in the Old Testament,[408] who, through his life, death, and resurrection, restored humanity's communion with God in the blood of the New Covenant. His death on a cross is understood as the redemptive sacrifice: the source of humanity's salvation and the atonement for sin,[409] which had entered human history through the sin of Adam.[410]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesus_Christ#Christian_views
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Originally posted by RionaEire:
Byte, I don't mean to be rude but.
Your writings upon this matter do not reflect how many/most Christians believe. I think you've done some research and combined all the things you've found from all sorts of Judaeism, Kabala included, and some writings you've found about ideas that have been tossed around among people from the middle ages forward. Like Lilith, I've never met anyone who actually believes in that. Sure you might be able to find someone somewhere, but I've never met any. And the idea that Christ's sacrifice doesn't cover our own sins, just innate sin is totally something I've never heard of, I've never met a Christian who thinks that. I know that you're just researching and trying to find out about stuff, but a lot of this is so obscure and, in my opinion, way off the normal belief patterns of any Christians I've known. Of course you can post whatever you want to and I think you're possibly enjoying the research, but I have to qualify to those reading that aren't CHristians that I don't know anyone who believes in some of these things. Some of them of course I've heard of and they are things that theologians have debated for a long time.
Byte's interpretation was pretty much what I was taught when I was young, although I had forgotten most of it, she is promting my memory and it sounds familiar. I had forgotten that the Immaculate Conception referred the fact that Mary was without original sin and not her 'virgin' status.
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Originally posted by BYTEMITE:
Have a good meal. When you come back, here's some further clarification about original sin.
It wasn't so much eating the forbidden fruit or anything that created original sin, but rather what it represented. Knowledge of good and evil, in way way, CREATES that evil, and unleashed it on humanity. Presumably that's the whole reason why God was trying to discourage the whole defying thing.
So there's two possibilities for Satan's role in all that, angels aren't supposed to have free will, so either God controlled him by manipulating him into corrupting humanity, or that was the plan all along.
Humans, however, were supposed to get free will all along, so whether God was trying to spare them from making that mistake or he was actually encouraging it, he knew it was going to happen.
Now, original sin only is passed down from the father, because it goes back to Adam. Not Eve. Eve was tricked, and so she didn't defy God of her own will. But Adam defied God to stay with Eve.
And either God was angry and threw a hissy fit that Adam didn't have his whole devotion, or, that's the way he wanted it to happen all along.
One last note: the Immaculate Conception doesn't refer to God visiting Mary and whatever, that's the Annunciation. Rather, the immaculate conception was manuevering circumstances so MARY did not have original sin, and so was a suitable host/mother for his son.
An explanation of the Tree of Knowledge. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tree_of_the_knowledge_of_good_and_evil
A puzzling part of Genesis for me. God created man in his own image, but didn't want him to have knowledge of good and evil. It always seemed to me that the OT God was such a domineering father/judge character, who didn't want his 'children' to grow up and think independantly. It is interesting that the serpent promised them wisdom, but what they got was shame about their own nakedness. Kind of reminds me of adolescence and how 'shame' particularly shame around sexuality is such a feature, particularly of course when you've not been informed about your own sexuality and lived in the "Garden of Eden" of childhood. Eve WAS singled out for punishment by God by the way, by being given labour pains for her part of the downfall of man.
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but didn't want him to have knowledge of good and evil.
Depends on whether you believe a person only has choice and free will if they can recognize good and evil.
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Eve WAS singled out for punishment by God by the way, by being given labour pains for her part of the downfall of man.
Hadn't heard that one.
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It's in Genesis
16 To the woman He said, "I will greatly multiply Your pain in childbirth, In pain you shall bring forth children; Yet your desire shall be for your husband, And he shall rule over you."
I'm not sure that the Bible identifies the Serpent as Satan. It's not in Genesist in any event. According to the text, wasn't the serpent just a crafty animal whom God punishes anyway for his part in the downfall of Man.
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Well, the second part's been true since he tried to force that crap on Lilith.
Yeah, the Satan/Lucifer/snake thing has never been strongly collaborated, though there is some suggestion of it in Revelations, which was written much later.
The snake is likely a symbol from another pre-Judaic religion, some kinda bronze snake.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nehushtan
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I think that is the difference between certain kinds of Christianity. As a Catholic, the whole Lucifer/Angel thing was never really emphasised or discussed. That seems to be something taken up by the more Pentacostal??? types of christianity.
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Hmm, no, I don't think that's it. John Milton wasn't a pentecostal.
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I read somewhere that the serpent may not have been a snake.....
Anyway, it's kind of an odd story when you look at it. God's kind of mischevious, really, especially if you consider the implications of him being the father and adam and eve the children. "Now kids, I've got this special tree with really delicious looking fruit, only you mustn't eat of it under any circumstance." Really???!!! How did he imagine it would all turn out...
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Originally posted by BYTEMITE:
Hmm, no, I don't think that's it. John Milton wasn't a pentecostal.
I'm not so good on naming sects of Christianity. I could also have just forgotten a lot of stuff.
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