London Burning
POSTED BY: piratenews
UPDATED: Friday, November 28, 2025 17:01
VIEWED: 8494
PAGE 6 of 10
"The English can look forward to the overthrow of The Powers That Be and the replacement with the Hoodie Parliament and free lager and chips for everyone."
Yeah, those low class people should know their place.
As in the LA riots, poverty and lack of opportunity are major factors in the riots. As a side note (and also related to the budget thread) - the countries cutting back the mpst that suffered the most in the economic crisis (note: NOT always the ones with the largest debt) are the ones that bought into poorly regulated aggressive real-estate capitalism. The fact that the British government is reducing its social welfare for the people who can afford to lose it least is a contributing factor. The riots are in some ways analogous to the Greek anti-austerity riots, except the Greeks explicitly state that it is economics they are rioting about.
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Looks like a lot of opportunistic looters out for a good time, rather than being politically motivated. The only effect that this will have will be for police to be given even more draconian powers than they already have in the UK and a whole lot of working class people who own small businesses in these areas will suffer even more than they are in the current crisis. Well done to all involved.
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Looking more and more like the LA riots. Which actually led to improved policing. Perhaps in England it will lead to a restoration of some benefits.
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http://uk.news.yahoo.com/comment/talking-politics/no-politics-today-08
4521728.html
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Many in the UK are reeling after days of images of brazen thefts and wanton damage during the riots, but just where is the tipping point when people think they can start looting?
There have been some extraordinary scenes in London and other cities this week, from burning buildings and running street battles, to people unashamedly walking into a shop and leaving with a flat-screen television under their arms.
Many of the looters have not bothered to cover their faces as they raided electrical stores, sports shops and off-licences.
Some have even posed for a picture afterwards, proudly showing off their haul and posting the images on social-networking sites.
Prof John Pitts, a criminologist who advises several London local authorities on young people and gangs, says some of those taking the lead in the looting will be known to the authorities, while others are swept along.
Car burning Rioters have set fire to cars and buses
He says looting makes "powerless people suddenly feel powerful" and that is "very intoxicating".
"The world has been turned upside down. The youngsters are used to adults in authority telling them they cannot do this or this will happen. Then they do it and nothing happens."
He says a large number of youngsters are involved in these riots because it is the school holidays and the nights are longer.
Numbers are all important in a riot and the tipping point comes when the rioters feel in control, he adds.
"You cannot riot on your own. A one-man riot is a tantrum. At some point the bigger crowds confronting the police realise that they are in control."
Psychopathic tendencies
Psychologists argue that a person loses their moral identity in a large group, and empathy and guilt - the qualities that stop us behaving like criminals - are corroded.
Continue reading the main story
A social psychologist's view
For most people looting is opportunistic. And greed is certainly a factor.
But some people approach this situation not necessarily with bad intentions. They are swept away by the crowd, for a variety of reasons highlighted by social psychologists.
One concept is called deindividuation. Normally people's behaviour is guided by their own identity and values, which tell us to not do certain things - like taking things without paying for them.
But in some situations they take on the values of the group. Our own internal values and norms become less salient.
The second idea is called emergent norm theory. Most of these people have probably not been in a riot like this one before. They are unsure of what the appropriate behaviour is.
So they look at what other people are doing. And if other people are doing this, it suggests it's normal. Or at least maybe it is something that I can get away with.
Source: Jason Nier, associate professor of psychology, Connecticut College, speaking to BBC World Service
"Morality is inversely proportional to the number of observers. When you have a large group that's relatively anonymous, you can essentially do anything you like," according to Dr James Thompson, honorary senior lecturer in psychology at University College London.
"Part of that is down to safety in numbers. There may only be 20 or 30 people who are leading the trouble but the presence of several hundred onlookers makes it far less likely they'll get caught."
He rejects the notion that some of the looters are passively going with the flow once the violence has taken place, insisting there is always a choice to be made.
Watching people getting away with it can act as a motivation for others to start looting, says psychologist Dr Lance Workman.
"Humans are the best on the planet at imitating. And we tend to imitate what is successful. If you see that people are walking out of a shop with a widescreen TV and trainers, a certain kind of person thinks why shouldn't I do that?"
Workman argues that some of those taking part may adopt an ad hoc moral code in thei
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Interesting article on whats going on.
http://www.spiked-online.com/index.php/site/article/10970/
"Hope is a good thing, maybe the best of things, and no good thing ever dies"
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Magons: Hmm. The same kind of mentality during a celebration in Egypt can cause people to drag off a woman and brutalize her.
Wulf: Eh, that article is pretty biased against the chavs (working and lower class white British), seems to me. The UK has it's own form of acceptable targets.
It's pretty simple: what touched off the riots wasn't a desire to create an environment safe for looting, but anger. So while there is a lot of looting, it's disingenuous to say that's the primary motivation.
The austerity measures is a closer explanation, and fits with a lot of the behaviours we're seeing.
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Quote:
Originally posted by Bytemite:
Magons: Hmm. The same kind of mentality during a celebration in Egypt can cause people to drag off a woman and brutalize her.
Wulf: Eh, that article is pretty biased against the chavs (working and lower class white British), seems to me. The UK has it's own form of acceptable targets.
It's pretty simple: what touched off the riots wasn't a desire to create an environment safe for looting, but anger. So while there is a lot of looting, it's disingenuous to say that's the primary motivation.
The austerity measures is a closer explanation, and fits with a lot of the behaviours we're seeing.
Yes.
This isn't because people are being told that they're going to have to pay for services now. It's because they've ALREADY PAID FOR THOSE SERVICES AND NOW THEY'RE BEING TOLD TO SOD OFF.
And this is exactly what Paul Ryan and the GOP and their tea party idiots want to do to this country. They want to destroy social programs that we already bought and paid for, all because THEY robbed the kitty, blew the money on idiotic shit like invading Iraq, and now they don't want to pay back what they spent, and they don't want anyone else to take too close a look at the books. So they decide it's better if we just burn the books and end the programs.
As I've pointed out, I get their anger. I just wish they'd shift their aim. A bit to the right should do it. ;)
"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill
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Yo, Kiki ?
There's two pre-existing threads where a lot of issues regarding protest have been hashed out in detail, one of which is kinda epic but well worth the time.
This one delves into the conflict of supposedly-legit authorities versus protestors with a legit gripe...
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.asp?b=18&t=43982
And this massive, extraordinarily detailed one delves into the conflict of human rights between protestors and the public in general.
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.asp?b=18&t=43940
Both excellent reading, and of course, much of what's gone on in London doesn't really fall into either category cause a damn lot of it is just plain angry jackassery - although I do hear tell at least one and maybe more than one police station was torched, and in the G20 related thread which is more relevant to the situation at hand, as I said, I consider law enforcement personnel and equipment "legitimate targets" as a general rule, although in THIS specific case given that they seemed to go out of their way not to suppress or provoke, I ain't sure they are.
I would consider torching the local grocery store idiotic, criminal and reprehensible - not to mention downright counterproductive, but say... torching parliment ?
Fair game, you ask me.
-Frem
I do not serve the Blind God.
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Can't go there with ya, Frem - I'm not down with torching historical landmarks like Parliament.
Now, if that mob wanted to perhaps go to the summer homes of some of the members of Parliament with their torches and pitchforks...
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