I weep for humanity.
POSTED BY: Wulfenstar
UPDATED: Wednesday, August 10, 2011 16:47
VIEWED: 4763
PAGE 5 of 6
That's just the point, Wulf, that you're not getting. She ISN'T indoctrinating her daughter. She's exposed her to her beliefs, and in the end hopes she makes up her own mind. I'm not sure how you can miss that. She doesn't know what will happen if her daughter has the opposite viewpoint to hers (as she has the opposite of HER parents), but she's open to it.
Do your and Nick's kudos mean I got the names right? I had to look long and hard to try and get some "right' names to exchange for Karl Marx, etc.; I'm afraid I'm not well versed in iconic figures from either side. If so, good. It was worth the time and effort.
Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off 
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Everybody indoctrinates their kids in their beliefs one way or another. probably the worst offenders are the religious, sorry guys but its true.
Most young children mirror their parents views, but when they start to individuate in adolescence, they question them. That is part of their healthy development into adulthood. Unfortunately, it can be quite unpleasant for parents and some, rather than supporting them in exploring a range of views and lifestyles, tighten the moral grip. Hence you get a lot of runaways at this time.
In adolescence and early adulthood, many will outright reject the values of their parents, only to return to something similar in 'true' adulthood. Sometimes, as the author demonstrates, not at all.
What the author expresses seems quite normal to me, a hope that her children will not veer too far from her politically (hence causing the awkward gap as per her own family of origin) but the desire to not indoctrinate them or prevent them from making up their own mind. The only weeping for humanity from me comes about that someone would find this mild article offensive because, frankly, the woman is a democrat.
As for the 'what if my child grows up gay' I can admit that I sincerely hope that my son is not gay, and not because I hate gays, but because in this country being gay is still damned hard. People are blatantly, violently and openly anti gay and I would hate for him to have to deal with that. But whatever happens, I'll love and support him.
On the list of things I hope he doesn't (but will support him anyway)
- join the military
- become a Liberal Politican
- become a Catholic Priest
That last one would be really testing.
But that is the way it is with parenting, you have your own dreams and wishes for them, and you know damn straight they'll go their own way._
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Quote:
Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
Replace "What if my child grows up to be a Republican?"
with,
"What if my child grows up to be gay?" (and supporting diatribe)
See the "outrage" fly.
Hypocrits, all of you liberals.
Or. "What if my child grows up to be a Democrat"?
You claim to be so "liberal", so "progressive", so "tolerant".
Until someone disagrees with you.
(Had an idea. I should rewrite the article. "What if my child grows up to be a Democrat?" Use the same type of writing and examples. See what would happen. Can't tho. I have a job. Anyone want to take up the challenge?)
You can't write, because you have a job?
Wow. What a sucky job that must be. They won't even let you write on your own time!
Or you're just too goddamned lazy to do it, and don't know anything about real liberals and democrats, so you'd have no way of referencing any of their cultural touchstones.
A long time ago I asked you whether it was your cowardice or your craziness that kept you from joining the military, since you admire them so much. I think I have my answer now: You're nothing but a coward.
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Well. Um. Sometimes the hours can be long, or the commute is, you know, and when you get home you barely have the energy to keep up conversations on a message board. And then there's people who work two or three jobs.
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Those seem like some pretty weak-sauce excuses for somebody (Wulfie, to be precise) who regularly accuses others of being lazy, and chalks said laziness up as a hallmark of "liberalism".
So, y'know, if he's so energetic and fired up, and so offended by the piece as written, why doesn't he go ahead and take the time to rewrite it? Even submit it for publication?
Because if not, then what does that tell us about our Wulfboy?
"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill
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Quote:
Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:
Everybody indoctrinates their kids in their beliefs one way or another.
Actually my mother made her best effort to avoid this - even after so long I really don't know what a lot of her beliefs were, religiously though I think she was somewhere in the neighborhood of diesm/agnostic, and having *some* affiliation with local pagans of unknown type or degree.
She more or less let me find my own path and then backed me up so long as that didn't compromise her morals, and in the extremely rare case where I might have come to her for guidance she always supported what seemed to be the natural path for me - she knew damn well I'd never quite be welcome or wanted in the world and society I would have to grow up in, and introduced me quite early to the concept of Knight Errant (which I more or less embraced) and the Chivalric Code (which after years of struggle, I rejected due to sexism/racism/classism, and damn foolishness) as an encouragement to seek moral fortitude and discipline from within, instead of looking for it from outside sources who I'd already mostly rejected.
My first real encounter with indoctrination came at the hands of religious authorities, and I was pointing out logical fallacies, circular logic and flaws in their thinking without even quite realizing it at the time, one of my favorite comments to the matter was "But that makes no SENSE!" - in order to pacify the whining of neighbors my mother convinced me to attend the local sunday school via bribing me with fruity pebbles in exchange for putting up with them, mmm tastes like religion - only to more or less snicker into her tea as they eventually became angry at my questions and refusal to sit down, shut up and obey, and strongly hinted to her that I wasn't welcome there no more, heeee.
(Which was, in a kinda-sorta way, my "plan" all along)
I was also kinda railroaded into, and subsequentedly pitched out on my ear by, the Awanas, which is a ludicrously religious take on the Boy Scouts, who had already rejected any notion of my presence cause of that furball about the pledge of alliegeance - although I did serve as muscle for my sisters venture into the Brownies, which ended with a fracas over a blatantly-fixed raffle when we caught them at it.
(And got villainized and called liars, cause all children are lying manipulators, right ? *snark*)
The second was via public school, and that didn't turn out too well neither, to say the least.
Fate has gotten a little revenge on me here in regards to my recent forays into assisting Kiras mother in the caretaking of that little horror - trying to cope with a naturally chaotic child who has an iron will and the brains to twit adults on a regular basis is no picnic even for someone as tolerant as me, I can most certainly now see WHY most adults wanted to wring my neck, I wasn't as energetic about is as Crash it, but I was even MORE stubborn, defiant, and willing to throw challenge in their face and defy them while shredding their ridiculous excuses and flawed logic.
My mother musta had the patience of all the saints put together, cause it's really not fun being on the receiving end of what I used to deliver, especially since I was far more obnoxious and malicious about it than Kira is, cause I hated them, bitterly.
Anyhows, most parents, it's a matter of whether or not their love can supercede their own emotional needs, and while often failing and faltering, when it comes to cases the greater part of them are supportive even when it grinds their gears.
Which is one of the things which preserves my faith in humanity, I'll have you know.
-Frem
I do not serve the Blind God.
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I liked that article you wrote Niki. The only thing I would change would be the part about climate change. Most conservatives will admit to that since the climate is indeed changing and always has cycled throughout the ages. So you might want to call it global warming for your intentions. But it was a good article.
I know what you mean. At nine my little brother seems to be choosing the beliefs of his mom (he's adopted and calls my mom grandma, so I'm talking about his bio mom here, he sees her every Tue. evening) as opposed to my beliefs. I have to admit that this bothers me since Christianity is very important to me and I believe it is the right way. But I certainly can't force him and he's got plenty of time to figure out what he believes so I'm trying not to get too riled up over it. I love him either way, but I won't deny that I'm hoping he comes around someday. So I'm experiencing a little bit of the same feelings, but some different ones too, expressed in this article, though for me beliefs about spirituality/religeon are more important than politics.
"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya
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Quote:
Originally posted by Niki2:
Dunno if we've met before, some people pop in so rarely I don't remember them, but if not, welcome; it's always great to hear a new voice.
Thanks for the welcome (back). I've always been a more active lurker on the boards than a poster, but I've been almost absent on both fronts since you joined. I mean, sheesh, the last time I posted before this month was October 2010, and I think I only posted in one thread before disappearing again. I'm kind of surprised anyone remembers me.
Quote:
Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:
As for the 'what if my child grows up gay' I can admit that I sincerely hope that my son is not gay, and not because I hate gays, but because in this country being gay is still damned hard. People are blatantly, violently and openly anti gay and I would hate for him to have to deal with that. But whatever happens, I'll love and support him.
Hardly seems like a good solution, though - to hope that people facing bigotry don't exist, rather than hoping for bigots to go away.
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"So, y'know, if he's so energetic and fired up, and so offended by the piece as written, why doesn't he go ahead and take the time to rewrite it? Even submit it for publication?
Because if not, then what does that tell us about our Wulfboy?"
Bob, I'm going to take answer C - that he's illiterate. AND D - that papers won't publish unoriginal comic books and stolen youtube videos as commentary.
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Quote:
Originally posted by yinyang:
Hardly seems like a good solution, though - to hope that people facing bigotry don't exist, rather than hoping for bigots to go away.
A bit of a leap, don't you think. Hoping that my son doesn't have to face a difficult life is not the same as wishing gay people didn't exist. And if you can't see the difference, you're a bit of a dolt.
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