Debtor Nation
POSTED BY: dreamtrove
UPDATED: Sunday, July 21, 2024 21:36
VIEWED: 2262
PAGE 2 of 4
That's saying he can order them to sell treasury bonds, on which there is no limit. They can do that, if anyone is buying, which they aren't.
The abstract debt of the fed is twisted, but does require congressional approval. The fed loans the govt. Money, but then they have to be given the power to print it for that purpose, which is insane.
If the fed possessed unlimited non-congressional power to mint money, then the US govt, would simply cease to exist the next day, as the fed could simply hire the army and all govt agencies away from them, and not have to put up with democracy. It could then do the same to the private sector, and establish a socialist state, and there's not really a reason to assume they wouldn't do that.
Instead what we have is the govt. Paying interest in the money which it has printed in the past, for the corporations stamp of approval on the printing of that money, which is an absolutely absurd situation. The result is we are creeping towards the federal reserve takeover dystopia, and increasingly seeing non-elected bodies in decision making, and non-military mercenary contractor armies, etc, until the corporation runs the nation directly and can dispense with the govt.
Right now, it needs the govt, to vote to give it that power.
From a micro to macro point of view, when the govt. Prints money the dollar is devalued, like happened yesterday, and we all get poorer. When this happens, we the people tend to vote republican, because they can just make the case "are you better off than you were four years ago" and people will check "no" without really knowing why. The GOP will then reel in borrowing because they're altruistic (nah, just kidding, it's really greed 
) because they're the party of rich people who are already rich, and want their wealth not to be diminished by inflation.
So, I have radically less money than they do, but I still don't want to see it devalued, or anyone's income devalued, or taxes raised on anyone (because those rich people make and sell products, the price of which will go up if their taxes go up, which will actually have more effect on me than on them.)
Essentially, if the new money can be created without congressional approval at any point, my advice is to move all your money out of dollars, something I wish I had done a year ago. Actually, the smart money did it when Obama was elected, and I feel like a moron for not following suit. I have a friend in england who reacted that way to Tony Blair's election, which also turned out to be a good idea. Big spending means weak currency. Unlimited spending means worthless currency. Just ask any Russian.
ETA: for anyone who didn't follow this logic, think of it this way: America (or Russia) has a fairly constant value, its resources, population, etc. remain fairly constant. The dollar (or rouble) is a share of that economy. If you increase the number of shares (denominator) then the value (fraction) of each share (numerator) goes down. It's an inverse relationship, there's no mechanisms of economics going on here, it's just a correlary relationship.
It's arguable that part of what happened to Russia is that the govt. Spending was and had been out of control for a while, but the currency was tied to that of other communist nations in europe, central asia and to some extent china, which enable it to float in a world of fiscal irresponsibility, and that now, the US is in the exact same predicament. The dollar doesn't collapse because it is pegged to lots of stabel economies, and so they essentially pay the price of our irresponsibility, just as czechoslovakia et al paid for Russia's. When those pegs are removed (because they get sick of putting up with our blatantly irresponsible habits, such as handing trillions of dollars to our friends, and when they blow the first 81 billion on hookers and coke, just handing them more) then the US dollar becomes a closed system, in which we have to pay the price for our own gorram spending, and inflation will rocket out of control.
ETA2: the d
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In some ways the dollar being worth less is not a bad think. It does make US exports cheaper. That is why China has been keeping the yen artificially low for many years, it keeps their exports cheaper then others.
I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.
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What exports? Guns, bullets, and artillery? Most of our manufacturing is overseas.
Maybe you mean the hardwork, intelligence, and innovation of our college graduates - oh wait. I'm thinking of India. Individually we have some bright people in America, but generally, we're not making much anymore or revolutionizing anything.
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Someone just sent me this, it does sort of nail the deaf ear blame game. I noticed the same thing when Bush was president. No one it seems accepts blame anymore.
Also, reading more about this committe it's starting to bug me. I'm not sure what powers it actually has, with this "fast track" voting, but he phrase "supercongress" is worrisome.
Still awaiting more data.
That's what a ship is, you know - it's not just a keel and a hull and a deck and sails, that's what a ship needs.
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I have more money in my bank account than the US Govt has in its bank account.
"The whole government is a Ponzi scheme."
-Jew Bernie Madoff, who stole $150-Billion...more than all other criminals in USA combined (not counting the foreign "Federal" Reserve Bank)
http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory?id=13015875
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Huh. It seems to me " may borrow on the credit of the United States Government " doesn't mean JUST bonds, unless there's something else in there to limit it to just bonds. "Borrow on the credit" should mean "borrow in any way on the credit", shouldn't it?
I'm so pissed off at this I can barely see straight. The Tea Party got virtually EVERYTHING (except NOT raising the ceiling!), and will continue to. This "supercommittee" (I don't like that EITHER!) supposedly has until Thankxgiving to come up with cuts or it triggere either a Balanced Budget Amendment (the GOP wording of which is REAL bad!) or across-the-board cuts. SUPPOSEDLY they can discuss revenue, but that ain't gonna happen...all the GOP/Tea Party has to do is refuse to consider them and the stalemate triggers all the cuts they WANT (since I doubt the BBA will fly--gawd I hope not!). So it's a sweet deal; work together on cuts, refuse to close loopholes or any other kind of revenue, if the cuts aren't what they want just stonewall and they'll get them...and the Dems can't do a bloody thing! If they insist on revenue, they get blocked and the cuts are triggered. It's HORRIBLE!
He sold us down the river yet again. I'm really sorry now that Clinton didn't make it--bad as she is, she wouldn't have stood for all the shit HE has, dammit!
Just sick at heart and mad as hell...sigh...
Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off 
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Quote:
Originally posted by Bytemite:
What exports? Guns, bullets, and artillery? Most of our manufacturing is overseas.
Maybe you mean the hardwork, intelligence, and innovation of our college graduates - oh wait. I'm thinking of India. Individually we have some bright people in America, but generally, we're not making much anymore or revolutionizing anything.
The US is the second largest exporter in the world, and is still the largest manufacturing nation in the world.
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/12/business/economy/12charts.html
http://shopfloor.org/2011/03/u-s-manufacturing-remains-worlds-largest/
18756
I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.
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It's not as good as you think, man, the article says that a big part of the increase is CHEMICAL manufacturing.
As in stuff that's killing us, and being used to kill other people. You know what's a big chemical sink that's been on the rise in our country, a market niche that's booming? Fracking for natural gas and oil shale. That's what's accounting for this, and the increase of employment is the government subsidies for it.
And the food exports is fast food, McDonalds and the like becoming popular because other nations working class are getting longer hours for less pay. Also essentially "chemicals killing people."
Actually, after reading that, my reaction was "oh ****, it's worse than I thought."
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The point is that the US s still one of the largest exporters in the world.
....according to this, not #1 anymore, but #4.
https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/
2078rank.html
Oh, and not all chemicals are dangerous or killing us.
I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.
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Quote:
The point is that the US is still one of the largest exporters in the world.
Say that you have an economy that necessitates going into other countries with guns and stealing off with the natural resources, and you STILL have so much in the way of energy needs that your government starts subsidizing a lot of drilling, and a lot of manufacturing chemicals for this drilling, both at home and abroad.
Say that proponents of that kind of energy have been lying about the kinds of yields you get, and the reserves of oil you have, creating an inflationary bubble while they flip wells around, and say that you can't sustain the wars you're fighting elsewhere forever, because you're starting to stretch your military so thin that you have to buy mercenary contractors.
Would you still say that manufacturing is robust, or that it's a healthy measure of this economy? How stable would you consider this economy?
Chemicals: everything is toxic in sufficient enough dose. EVERYTHING. Including water. Unnatural stuff people make tends to be bad, though there's plenty of organic chemicals that will also screw you up a lot. Perhaps arguably the organic stuff is worse simply because it can be confused by your systems for something that's supposed to be there.
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