Debtor Nation
POSTED BY: dreamtrove
UPDATED: Sunday, July 21, 2024 21:36
VIEWED: 2262
PAGE 1 of 4
A debt deal in in place, between dems and the gop, no details yet.
http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory?id=14201433Quote:
A Democratic official tells The Associated Press that the White House and Republicans in Congress have reached a debt deal to prevent the first government default in U.S. history.
The official said House Speaker John Boehner and President Barack Obama spoke by phone Sunday evening. The official spoke on condition of anonymity because the deal has not yet been announced. Obama was to go on TV at 8:40 p.m. EDT.
That's what a ship is, you know - it's not just a keel and a hull and a deck and sails, that's what a ship needs.
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Breaking News: Obama announces Debt Ceiling Deal:
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-20086104-503544.htmlQuote:
President Barack Obama announced that an agreement with Republicans has been struck to raise the debt ceiling. The agreement now awaits approval by Congress, which could happen as early as Monday.
The debt ceiling raise would happen in exchange for $1 trillion in spending cuts over the next ten years, Mr. Obama said.
Mr. Obama said the deal will result in the lowest level of domestic spending since the Eisenhower administration in the 1950s, but still allow the U.S. to create jobs.
Still clinging to his idea of a balanced approach, Obama said "we have to ask wealthiest Americans to give up tax breaks," as well as make modest adjustments to entitlement programs like Medicare and Medicaid.
The second part of the agreement reached was a previously mentioned bipartisan Congressional committee, which will report back by November with a proposal to further reduce the deficit. Their proposals will then be put in front of congress for up or down vote.
ETA: I hope that $100 billion/year will be discretionary, and not something like "We will cull all of this from the EPA, etc."
ETA 2: watched the video, a committee is being set up to decide how to cut the budget by november, it will be the 100 billion per year. I don't see where this makes it "the lowest level of spending since Eisenhower." Seems Clinton had an entire budget of 1.9, and here we're talking walking back from 3.7 to 3.6.
That's what a ship is, you know - it's not just a keel and a hull and a deck and sails, that's what a ship needs.
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Announcing a deal doesn't make it something everyone will vote on. And they're not...just like Boner's "deal", they haven't brought it to a vote 'cuz they ain't got the votes.
It's a terrible, terrible deal. Look into it. See how it can be manipulated. Easily. See how, if you follow the logical course of it, we wind up with a Balanced Budget Amendment which makes EVER raising the debt ceiling impossible ever again; see how it automatically gives the Tea Party all the cuts they ever want to make, just by not agreeing with anything else.
It's a mess; it's Obama coming to a strip-poker game half naked, and my prayer is it never comes to the floor, House or Senate. Each is right now waiting for the other to get the votes so they can be blamed, nothing new there.
Did'ja hear Boner, who is using as a talking point that "Obama CHOSE not to do away with the Bush tax cuts because he knew doing so would be wrong in the current situation", when in actuality Obama got BLACKMAILED into not letting them expire (sounds good tho', doesn't it?)? They held the government/country/people hostage then and it worked. This is more of the same. If it just wouldn't work ONCE, maybe they'd slow down. I'm not holding my breath.
Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off 
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The problem is that The President has to compromise or let the country default. Maybe not right away because the dead line is an estimate from the Federal Reserve, but default none the less. It is hard to get anything from the Tea Tards when they are more then willing to let the country burn.
I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.
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14th Amendment! He can raise it all by his lonesome. They've said very, very clearly that if he tries it they'll try to impeach him, and if "he" let's us default, they'll try to impeach him. He's got nothing to lose (only he's such a wishy-washy coward, he'll never do it). Only hope I'm clinging to is that they're STARTING to talk about the possibility. Go 14th Amendment!
Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off
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I replied in the other thread, The White House does not think that argument would hold up in court. I agree with them.
I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.
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Well, it's too late now anyway. They got their ransom--every single gloody penny. WE all better start SAVING whatever pennies we can...it's gonna get pretty bad.
Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off
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If it gets that bad pennies or any other money or gold won't help.
I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.
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I concur with Niki, except for the part about the 14th giving obama that power. The president has never been given constitutional spending power, the vlidity of the public debt is still congressional.
It is however, my least favorite clause. Everything should be questioned, especially the validity of the public debt.
That's what a ship is, you know - it's not just a keel and a hull and a deck and sails, that's what a ship needs.
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This is an excerpt from something I saw about the President's authority to honor our debts:
Quote:
With this context, it is astonishing that apparently nobody has bothered to read the text of Public Debt Law of 1941 itself, embodied in 31 USC 3101, which is what codifies a national debt limit. That law states that
"The face amount of obligations issued under this chapter and the face amount of obligations whose principal and interest are guaranteed by the United States Government (except guaranteed obligations held by the Secretary of the Treasury) may not be more than [some arbitrary huge number] . . . "
Please take careful note of the words "EXCEPT guaranteed obligations held by the Secretary of The Treasury". By undeniably clear law as passed by Congress, such obligations are NOT constrained by any so-called debt limit. Now all you have to do is run your finger down to the very next section 31 USC 3102 [Bonds] and you will read
"With the approval of the President, the Secretary of the Treasury may borrow on the credit of the United States Government amounts necessary for expenditures authorized by law . . . "
By this section Congress gives the President the EXPRESS, inherent and unilateral authority to direct the Secretary of the Treasury to incur obligations to cover all expenditures authorized by law, which is to say the sum of the appropriations bills Congress has already passed.
It seems Obama actually COULD order the Secretary of the Treasury to sell more bonds and T-bills to raise the debt limit, regardless of what Congress or anyone else has to say about it.
"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill
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