Back to the Black

POSTED BY: dreamtrove
UPDATED: Thursday, July 21, 2011 12:20
VIEWED: 3708
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DREAMTROVE

Wednesday, July 20, 2011 8:33 AM

Rebecca Black, that is. She returns:

That's what a ship is, you know - it's not just a keel and a hull and a deck and sails, that's what a ship needs.

LWAVES

Wednesday, July 20, 2011 11:01 AM

Oh NOOOOOOO!!!!

Please bring on the end of the world right now.
Pwetty pwease.

I know I'm at the age where I'm not supposed to like or understand modern music but is this really the type of stuff young folk listen?
Whenever I hear 'popular' acts these days it all seems to be cookie cutter molded to either banal drivel called pop or sound-a-like R'n'B.

"The greatest invention ever is not the wheel. It's the second wheel." - Rich Hall

DREAMTROVE

Wednesday, July 20, 2011 2:51 PM

Listen to what you listened to as a kid, and ask yourself seriously if it's any different.

I see she posted this on Monday, I watched it on Tuesday, And now it it is Wednesday, and we still talking about it, it yeah, we still talking about it.
Tomorrow, it will be Thursday...

Okay, can I get a second opinion?

ETA: What kids really listen to? Last time I was asked that I posted this, (not here) and was roundly flamed for doing so, by people saying "no one listens to country, and no one has heard of this girl"

And then this happened.

Okay, someone I knew sent me a few early because she'd seen her live, and sent me Love Story and Back to December.

So, I'm gonna make a prediction here. Okay, she's not Taylor Swift, but she's not going away.

That's what a ship is, you know - it's not just a keel and a hull and a deck and sails, that's what a ship needs.

PENNAUSAMIKE

Wednesday, July 20, 2011 3:06 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by dreamtrove:
Listen to what you listened to as a kid, and ask yourself seriously if it's any different.

Led Zeppelin
Like comparing a Mozart symphony to a street musician.

Yeah, no contest, it's different.

Mike

BROWNCOAT1

Wednesday, July 20, 2011 3:08 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by pennausamike:
Led Zeppelin
Like comparing a Mozart symphony to a street musician.

Seconded!

__________________________________________
Holding the line since December '02!

X.O. / Battalion O.I.C.

http://76thbattalion.homestead.com/index.html

http://76thbattalion.proboards.com

DREAMTROVE

Wednesday, July 20, 2011 3:22 PM

For those who noticed the original upload is gone (damn, I wanted to check the view count. I saw the sequel getting ready to top 6 million. I remember Friday at 9 million last I checked, but much lower when it was first posted here by CTS)

The reason for taking down the first video was actually copyright dispute. Ark Music Factory apparently did not plan for "What happens if any of our tween pop idols actually does succeed?" Well, a major goof on their part, as now they will not get her traffic. The company was banking on the money from downloads, but this is one area where I think the traffic was probably more valuable, and they shoulda just given up on the money. Worth bearing in mind that there is an MSM out there waiting to kill any indy studio, regardless of what people might think of them.

I was actually reposting this to reopen a discussion of marksmanship vs. carpetbombing me an mike were having a couple years ago.

Is arguably better, and came up readily on a search, but about 6 million hits lower. If you're a successful indy band, is it better to be loved by 900 or hated by 30% of (Uh oh. 6.5 million. It was like 2.7 when I first saw it, yesterday. Maybe 4 million when I posted.)

Pirate News was the carpet bomber in question, but I've been thinking about it as I see other people use the term. Thoughts?

ETA: Back on the previous issue of copyright:

Interesting point brought up in a news article: Because Ark is a vanity publisher, their rights are more seriously in question. Normally, you pay for rights. The world is not filled with vanity music successes, but in the ink and paper world, it is accepted that vanity publishers have no legal rights to content at all. So, it seems, Ark screwed itself on the opening moving, they should have gamed for the traffic.

That's what a ship is, you know - it's not just a keel and a hull and a deck and sails, that's what a ship needs.

DREAMTROVE

Wednesday, July 20, 2011 4:27 PM

Okay, sure. But everytng you listened to as a kid was high art, right?

I mean, as for mean, yes, I had The Runes album, and Sgt. peppers, Dark side of the moon, but I here's what else I had:

Barry Manilow
John Denver
Johnny Horton (yes p, we have to sink the bismark)
ABBA
(i mean, sure, I had a lot of other stuff that people would likely still think was cool Xray soecs, biw wow wow, blue oyster cult, clash, ramones, etc.) But seriously, kids aren't that picky, anything beats an adult yelling at you for a sound track ;) also, as with fiction... Sure, i recognized when something was art, but I consumed meaningless stuff.

Or this: KC and the Sunshine Band. Srsly.

So, yes, some 13 yo probably has nightwish, doesn't mean they don't also have Lady Gaga. And sure, they know the difference between the two. But when they're partying partying, yeah, they want ot have fun fun fun... Okay, she's not popular, yet she has 2 million likes, which is 2 million more than any of us. (I'm just guesing here.)

That's what a ship is, you know - it's not just a keel and a hull and a deck and sails, that's what a ship needs.

BYTEMITE

Wednesday, July 20, 2011 9:49 PM

There's been a debate about low quality vs popular music vs masterpieces ever since there became a such thing as music.

In the nineteenth century Tchaikovsky was criticizing Debussy of

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clair_de_lune_%28Debussy%29

fame for writing music that was "very pretty, but too short, terribly shriveled, lacking unity, and no idea is fully expressed."

In the early nineteeth century during the regency era,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ombra_mai_f%C3%B9

was considered a classic, while Scottish and Irish Airs such as

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Londonderry_Air

(The song was around before that name and arrangement) were considered tasteless and vulgar.

Handel's Largo, BTW, failed commercially when it was first produced.

Go ahead and tell me that Itsy-Bitsy Polka Dot Bikini has the same quality as a Ray Charles song because they were written in 1960.

Or, also try to argue that while Stairway to Heaven was a significant musical piece, it didn't have nonsense lyrics.

I don't try to claim that this girl has any particular significance, but I do tire of rose-coloured musical era nostalgia.

LWAVES

Wednesday, July 20, 2011 10:22 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by dreamtrove:
Listen to what you listened to as a kid, and ask yourself seriously if it's any different.

First off I don't mind that you posted it, it's nice to know that I'm still not missing any great musical geniuses by avoiding most chart music.

I can't quite say I grew up with Led Zeppelin because I didn't discover them until later but my musical diet as a kid was:
Queen, Rolling Stones, The Who, Eagles and The Beatles amongst others.

And mixed into this was:
Shakin' Stevens, Bucks Fizz, Duran Duran (they're still good IMO) and the one I'll go to hell for - Chas N Dave.

So I take your point (and agree with it) about having good music mixed in with the bad and not being too picky as a kid. That's not my problem. If youngsters genuinely like this and get some enjoyment out of it then great for them. My problem is that it seems that it's all there is today.
Where are the artists that write their own music and lyrics, play their own instruments and even genuinely sing their own songs without autotune or whatever.
It just seems like the lyrics are written by people hired by the record company, session muscians play the music (when it's not just samples or synthesiser generated and then the currently popular artist 'sings' into a machine that makes them all sound similar and in harmony to each other.
You also get the tracks with artists 'featuring' other artists. I just looked up the UK top 50 singles for this week and 19 of the 50 were 'featuring' singles. This used to be an occasional occurance and was hopefully something special (like the supergroups). 19 of 50 is just ridiculous. Can't the acts make it on their own any more. And they seem to have several singles out at once. Is it really a case of get as much out as quickly as possible because they won't last long and then the record company can move on to the next big thing whilst the artists survive on reality TV. Whatever happened to longevity and being in it for the long haul.

Rebecca Black may not be Taylor Swift (not really sure who she is but I've heard the name so she must have had some success) but the sad thing is you are probably right that it will be a successful song and make the record company a lot of money for a short time. She may even get a few singles and some albums out. But will we really remember any of these artists in a few years? Ten years? Will any of them make music Halls of Fame? Somehow I don't think so.

My current thoughts:
It's time for the next musical revolution.
Rock n roll killed the crooners or whoever was popular back then, punk killed disco and grunge killed rave.
It's time for the next musical fatality.

"The greatest invention ever is not the wheel. It's the second wheel." - Rich Hall

LWAVES

Wednesday, July 20, 2011 11:26 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Bytemite:
There's been a debate about low quality vs popular music vs masterpieces ever since there became a such thing as music.

Or, also try to argue that while Stairway to Heaven was a significant musical piece, it didn't have nonsense lyrics.

I don't try to claim that this girl has any particular significance, but I do tire of rose-coloured musical era nostalgia.

Yeah, the debate has always been there and always will be there. Same thing applies to movies these days as well. It's never going to go away whilst people have different tastes.
Tchaikovsky did criticise Debussy but Debussy's work was still good enough to stand the test of time and become a classic. How many people years from now are going to be talking about N-Dubz, The Saturdays, Tinchy Stryder or in the US (I don't know the US music scene so forgive me if there are better examples) Justin Bieber or Selena Gomez and claiming their output is classic.
Whilst there is definitely nostalgia and rose-tintedness looking back at Zeppelin etc there is a good reason for it. The music had something that made it stand out then and allows us to be nostalgic about it now because it still stands strong. How many modern artists really have that 'something' that makes them special (and I don't mean popular). Tchaikovsky and Debussy both had it which is why they both became classic composers. Led Zeppelin have it and others from the 70s and other decades.
Until modern artists start creating their own works again and get away from the factory production line manufacture of music they'll never attain any real greatness. Popularity maybe but not greatness.

I don't know if I said it well enough in my other post but whilst I really don't like most modern music it's not a problem with it being pop, RnB etc but how it's created. There are plenty of musical styles I don't like but I'll pick country as an example. It's not for my tastes but I can appreciate that the artists write and play on their own material. They perform it (genuinely) live, go on tour etc which I can respect. Same goes for some rap music. I don't like it but at least the artists create it.
Modern artists effectively have everything done for them. Others write the song, they don't play any instruments, they sing and machines make them sound acceptable and they learn the dance moves. If they do any kind of 'tour' it's nearly always to a backing track and autotune is there to help if they don't mime.

To me, that isn't proper music. The artists aren't doing anything to earn respect as genuine musical talents. It's paint-by-numbers for music. Unfortunately it's also popular.

"The greatest invention ever is not the wheel. It's the second wheel." - Rich Hall

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