Core Overload?

POSTED BY: SignyM
UPDATED: Tuesday, July 12, 2011 00:42
VIEWED: 9710
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TWO

Monday, July 11, 2011 3:28 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
So having the knowledge isn't enough, you have to have the ability to thread it through the needle of their own "issues" and emotional investments to reach whatever thought-process they actually use, if any, in order to have any impact on a situation - and most of those ways, they ain't very nice, doll.

Actually, sometimes you have to threaten to arrest their corporation officers. But threaten in a polite way.

If flood waters at Fort Calhoun Nuke had reached 1010' in 2010, there was a 100% chance of a meltdown. The NRC complained to the owner of Fort Calhoun Nuke, who said there wasn't that much to worry about because the actual chance of a meltdown was less than 23.9%. But there is a happy ending to the story.

The NRC’s managers used the agency’s enforcement process to compel the plant’s owner to remedy the shortcomings rather than endlessly debate the risks. The NRC’s actions led to tangible changes in flood protection measures at Fort Calhoun. Workers at Fort Calhoun procured more portable pumps, fabricated new flood plates to protect against flooding up to 1014 feet, verified readiness of sandbagging equipment and materials, and took additional flood protection steps. - http://allthingsnuclear.org/post/6795320523/the-nrc-in-action

The moral of the story: Don't worry, be happy because there is no meltdown so long as the Missouri River doesn't get to 1014 feet above sea-level. Until then, Omaha, the biggest city in Nebraska, downstream of Fort Calhoun Nuke, is inhabitable.

Does everyone feel so much better knowing that Omaha is four feet in elevation further above death and destruction than was originally reported? Does that extra margin of safety make you feel good?

Fort Calhoun Nuke on Google Maps: http://bit.ly/qIzTJ2 lat 41.520965° lon -96.076845°

The Joss Whedon script for "Serenity," where Wash lives, is
Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/two

1KIKI

Monday, July 11, 2011 5:07 AM

H-W

"... that depending on the unit, may have gone all the way through the containment structure? That's what the latest credible information has already said."

Out of curiosity, when did you get to be OK with melt-throughs? When did that become an acceptable normal?

And, BTW, just based on your happy accommodation to the horrific, I am still seeing this in you future:
If corium hits the water table and explodes in one giant steam explosion, I think you'll be here saying ... see. that wasn't so bad.

HARDWARE

Monday, July 11, 2011 3:48 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
So, Hardware... I showed your post to a friend of mine who's spent 35 years doing research for a major university, and this is what he said (paraphrased):
Quote:
No, the difference is you presume everyone is lying to you and is against you. I give the benefit of doubt until it is proven they are lying.
Scientists don't credit "opinion", nor do they presume that anyone is "lying" or telling "the truth". Science isn't based on either.
Quote:
Some might call you paranoid.
Did Galileo care what the Church called him? Science is neither democracy, nor is it a popularity contest.
Quote:
But back to the issue at hand. Has Fort Calhoun melted down and killed us all?
No one claimed that ft Calhoun was going to "kill us all". You wouldn't be trying to set up a straw man argument, would you?

Anyway, just FYI.

I think this quote from Niki will cover that argument.

Quote:

Dunno what the result of fire would be, as opposed to flooding, but it's truly strange...maybe the End Times truly ARE upon us...

I think referring to the end times qualifies as "WE'RE ALL GONNA DIE!!!111!!!"

It is a truism that almost any sect, cult, or religion will legislate its creed into law if it acquires the political power to do so, and will follow it by suppressing opposition, subverting all education to seize early the minds of the young, and by killing, locking up, or driving underground all heretics - RAH

...and he that has no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one. Luke 22:36

HARDWARE

Monday, July 11, 2011 3:52 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
BTW, you claim that Fukushima was our "1 in 1000" times at being right.

I have to ask, can you show me ONE SINGLE TIME where I've said, and I quote your words attributed to all who disagree with you here: "We're all going to die!!!!11111!!!" ?

Can you show me that post where I ever claimed that? Even one time out of a thousand would do.

I think you've either got your head wedged all the way up your ass, or you're engaging in more than a little bit of hyperbole in trying to accuse others of engaging in hyperbole.

You are merely one of the Greek chorus of doomsayers on this forum. See Niki's quote above for the "WE'RE ALL GONNA DIE!!!111!!!" Statement. And that's not even adding in her fearmongering over the Los Alamos fires.

I didn't say you said it. You don't really loom that large in my concerns of the day Kwicko. You're just a minor concern that needs to be set in line from time to time.

It is a truism that almost any sect, cult, or religion will legislate its creed into law if it acquires the political power to do so, and will follow it by suppressing opposition, subverting all education to seize early the minds of the young, and by killing, locking up, or driving underground all heretics - RAH

...and he that has no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one. Luke 22:36

HARDWARE

Monday, July 11, 2011 3:56 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
In other words, HW, we should all listen to our government, all the time, correct?

How could that ever go wrong?

Gulf of Tonkin.
Pentagon Papers.
Watergate.
Iran-Contra.
Ruby Ridge.
Waco.
WMD.

... and the beat goes on...

Kind of surprised to hear that you're so dead-set against questioning the "official" story in all instances.

Our government wasn't releasing statements regarding Fukushima. That pretty much demolishes your argument. Can you name one scandal the current Japanese administration lied to the public about prior to Fukushima?

Despite the leftard's opinions, our government is not responsible for curing all of the world's problems.

Unless you have some superior, unimpeachable source of information on what was happening? I don't know anyone personally who works at Fukushima, so I had to take official news reports and Japanese government statements.

Sorry, the voices in your head don't count.

It is a truism that almost any sect, cult, or religion will legislate its creed into law if it acquires the political power to do so, and will follow it by suppressing opposition, subverting all education to seize early the minds of the young, and by killing, locking up, or driving underground all heretics - RAH

...and he that has no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one. Luke 22:36

HARDWARE

Monday, July 11, 2011 4:08 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
H-W

"... that depending on the unit, may have gone all the way through the containment structure? That's what the latest credible information has already said."

Out of curiosity, when did you get to be OK with melt-throughs? When did that become an acceptable normal?

And, BTW, just based on your happy accommodation to the horrific, I am still seeing this in you future:
If corium hits the water table and explodes in one giant steam explosion, I think you'll be here saying ... see. that wasn't so bad.

I'm not okay with it. But there's no use arguing over what might have been. It is the situation we are presented with. The question is; what is being done about it?

At this point there's no credible information on whether the melt down went through the concrete base of the reactor vessel. That they went through the steel in at least one case is pretty well accepted. But IAEA and the Japanese government have been disquietingly silent on the actual conditions at the plant. If they all stayed inside the concrete, it would be a godsend. If they went through the bottom and are laying in the basement of the building, or worse, all the way to soil, well, they're screwed. A large patch of Japanese territory is going to be uninhabitable, Chernobyl style.

You know, after Chernobyl the armored, remote controlled robots that were needed there were designed. EVERYONE but the FRENCH declined to build them. The French sent a couple to Fukushima, not sure if they were sold or loaned. My money's on sold. Pretty sad when the French are better prepared for a worst case scenario than everybody else. Then again, the French get most of their power from nukes, so it isn't that surprising.

It is a truism that almost any sect, cult, or religion will legislate its creed into law if it acquires the political power to do so, and will follow it by suppressing opposition, subverting all education to seize early the minds of the young, and by killing, locking up, or driving underground all heretics - RAH

...and he that has no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one. Luke 22:36

BYTEMITE

Monday, July 11, 2011 4:55 PM

Yes, if the contamination got into the soil and the groundwater it would be very bad.

The data seems pretty clear to me; there's been a detected and measurable release. Maybe you're seeing something else, but I'd concur with Sig based on what we know.

We don't have word from the government of Japan or the IAEA, sure, but I'm pretty sure we can use inductive reasoning to figure out what's happened without their confirmation one way or the other, which might be a long time coming.

Also, did we really have to make a jab at the French? They did lend a hand here.

1KIKI

Monday, July 11, 2011 5:36 PM

H-W

Every 'reasonable' assumption - some of which you espoused - has been wrong --- they won't melt down; well, only a little; but not all of them; they won't go critical; they won't explode; it's only hydrogen; it's not nearly as bad as Chernobyl; the contamination won't go far; no one will get hurt; the Japanese are on top of it; the IAEA will fix this up; they'll be able to stop this; the seawater is OK; ... etc.

You'd think with a track record like that, rather than trust the official voices of 'reasonableness' you'd start to think a little bit more for yourself. Other people have seen the pattern and concluded the official voices of 'reasonableness' are either stupid, or lying. Other people have seen that the response has been far, far behind the curve and were calling, and are calling, for effective (what you might call drastic) action.

The pressure vessel is centimeters of steel. If the corium is going to melt it, why would the containment vessel which is only millimeters of steel fare any better? Cesium levels are still high indicating ongoing fissioning indicating the corium is still concentrated and molten. Why would the concrete fare any better than the containment vessel?

Fukushima is a disaster that didn't just happen and quit, and now all there's left is the cleanup. No, it a continuing melt-down, and melt through, burrowing towards a melt-out.

Are the people who say so alarmists?

KWICKO

Monday, July 11, 2011 11:03 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Bytemite:

Also, did we really have to make a jab at the French? They did lend a hand here.

Who made a jab at the French?

HW posted

Quote:
You know, after Chernobyl the armored, remote controlled robots that were needed there were designed. EVERYONE but the FRENCH declined to build them. The French sent a couple to Fukushima, not sure if they were sold or loaned. My money's on sold. Pretty sad when the French are better prepared for a worst case scenario than everybody else. Then again, the French get most of their power from nukes, so it isn't that surprising.

... which doesn't strike me as a jab, so much as a recognition that they did what nobody else seemed willing or able to do, because they realize they may well face the same problem some day. There might be a slight jab at them in the "pretty sad that they're the best prepared" angle, but I read it as just a remark on how shitty the whole industry is, when the French government represents the apex of it.

"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill

BYTEMITE

Monday, July 11, 2011 11:09 PM

Quote:
There might be a slight jab at them in the "pretty sad that they're the best prepared" angle, but I read it as just a remark on how shitty the whole industry is, when the French government represents the apex of it.

That's the one.

I'm not sure if HW was saying it's sad because the French shouldn't have been prepared (didn't build robots) but were more prepared than the Japanese, or if it was a general comment on French planning and dealing with crises, popular in America since WW2.

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