Why Firefly deserved to die
POSTED BY: xed
UPDATED: Thursday, December 19, 2024 02:34
VIEWED: 28595
PAGE 1 of 9
So Firefly's dead. We may get to see the long-touted pilot...or we may not. Either way, this series has taken the big dirt nap.
Let's run down the reasons:
[1] unebelievably depressing (Joss Whedon's fault). Imagine a future where the Nazis won. Fill a weekly show with French resistance members hiding out in Tieera Del Fuego. This ain't a recipe for fun, kiddies.
[2] We have no idea who these characters are (Fox networks' fault). Without the pilot episode, the screenwriters found themselves forced to insert exposition that clobbered every episode. The whole second episode made no sense (What's a Reaver?). "Out Of Gas" tried to substitute for the pilot -- did a darn good job. But way too late. Faced with a universe we dont' understand populated by folks we don't know in situations we're not familiar with, most viewers chose to tune out. Thanks, Fox. Brilliant decision to avoid showing the 2-hour pilot.
[3] Clunky screenwrtiing. Any professional writer worth hi/r salt knows you don't slam the brakes on the action to segue to irrelevant and annoying exposition. Whedon's always had this problem, and the canceled pilot made it worse. "The Train Job" offers a superb example of how NOT to write a script. Start off the episode with a long irrelevant flashback involving River. (Irrelevant to this episode -- perhaps necessary for expositin down the line, but that doesn't count. Each episode must grab and HOLD the viewer's attention, else the series fails.) Bog down the episode with a long discussion with Book. Then, the minute Mal & company get ready to pull the heist on the maglev, slam the brakes on the narrative by cutting away to a long irrelevant discussion twixt Book and the companion.
Kiddies, that's bad screenwriting with a vengeance.
[4] Avoid upbeat endings like the plague. Good idea. We already start with a grim premise -- the bad guys lost WW II/the Civil War. And on top of that, what? Every episode seems to involve some new downer -- a universe in which justice never ever prevails, a Buffy The Vampire Slayer in wh ich Buffy can never slay a vamp...or even keep 'em from greasing civilians. Case in point: in "The Train Job" the supervillain on the skyplex gets away scot free. He's still out there, still hanging folks from the ceiling. Wonderful. Instead of watching "Firefly," how's 'bout I just cut my throat?
The dialogue crackles, the characters have three dimensions, and the background's wonderfully vivid & details... Alas, those strengths can't make up for the rest of this show's fatal flaws. R.I.P. Firefly. We hardly knew ye.
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Well then don't watch. But I betcha everyone on who reads this board loves the show (cause really if you didn't like the show why would you spend time trolling this board) and disagree's with you on almost all your points. So go back to your cave and leave those of us who actually like the show alone to enjoy it.
-Docebo
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Just because they've putted it on hiatus doesn't mean it's dead. I admit it doesn't look good for the show but as long as FOX doesn't announce cancelation the show is still alive and (almost) well.
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I suppose everyone is entitled to their own stupid opinion, but as far as I see it, the only reason Firefly deserves to die is the way it makes most other television seem moronic by contrast. I've seen every episode so far and not once felt depressed -- quite the opposite actually. Despite the network's bone-headed scheduling, I haven't been confused about the characters at all. In fact, my only complaint has been that the character development has seemed slightly rushed at times, a seeming necessity given the short attention spans of the network execs. The pacing on the show is wonderful.. and wonderfully atypical. Firefly is not a sitcom nor the A-team and I find it refreshing that they allow the 'action' to be interlaced with more contemplative and thought provoking dialog.
As far as your critique of the downbeat nature of the show, I couldn't disagree more. Firefly is science fiction, but it's not fantasy. The characters aren't larger than life heroes changing the epic flow of history, and everything doesn't always work out in the end. But thats exactly what makes it all so immediate and believable. They struggle with isolation, alienation, regret and rejection... the real issues all of us have to deal with in one form or another... and while you might find it depressing to consider, personally I am joyously moved to see others fighting to maintain dignity if the face of all that would drag us down.
I quite watching TV when Quantum Leap went off the air, precisely because of the trite, idiotic nature of most of the rest of television, where you can't tell the difference between drama and Pepsi commercials.. and my TV goes back in the closet if they toss Firefly aside.
SergeantX
"..and here's to all the dreamers, may our open hearts find rest." -- Nanci Griffith
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I agree with a large part of what Sarge said. FF does make the rest of television look a bit moronic. Everything doesn't come out fine in the end, life's challenges can't be solved in 18 minutes plus commercials. FF's characters are flawed...and fabulous. Like we all are. But it doesn't deserve to get cancelled or changed. There's bunch of us Browncoatz that like it just the way it is. I'd love to say F$%@ television demographics...but they could put a Nielsen box on every TV set and then they could see who's really watching what. And I bet they'd be surprised.
I've been'planetside'for 2 Fridays in a row now, I'm jonesin' really bad for the next ep. War Stories.
Oh yeah...and if XED is still pondering his decision whether to 'watch Firefly or slit his throat'?...maybe he can ask Jayne Cobb for the loan of his knife.
Ainein Kurogane
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Quote:
Originally posted by xed:
[1] unebelievably depressing (Joss Whedon's fault). Imagine a future where the Nazis won. Fill a weekly show with French resistance members hiding out in Tieera Del Fuego. This ain't a recipe for fun, kiddies.
So every episode is supposed to be fun and upbeat? Ever hear of Babylon 5? Ever hear of Angel? Jeremiah? X-Files? Millennium? I like the idea of a universe where it's not Star Trek, where people's rights have been taken away and government and bureaucracy rule the day. Not that I would want to live in this universe but because it creates interesting storylines and dilemnas for the characters.
Quote:
[2] We have no idea who these characters are (Fox networks' fault). Without the pilot episode, the screenwriters found themselves forced to insert exposition that clobbered every episode. The whole second episode made no sense (What's a Reaver?). "Out Of Gas" tried to substitute for the pilot -- did a darn good job. But way too late. Faced with a universe we dont' understand populated by folks we don't know in situations we're not familiar with, most viewers chose to tune out. Thanks, Fox. Brilliant decision to avoid showing the 2-hour pilot.
So all of the characters and their motivations are supposed to be revealed in one episode? Yes, Fox should have aired the pilot FIRST but they didn't. Personally I like the way the characters are being revealed, layer by layer. I don't want to see all the cards on the table at once. Ditto the storyline.
Quote:
[3] Clunky screenwrtiing. Any professional writer worth hi/r salt knows you don't slam the brakes on the action to segue to irrelevant and annoying exposition. Whedon's always had this problem, and the canceled pilot made it worse. "The Train Job" offers a superb example of how NOT to write a script. Start off the episode with a long irrelevant flashback involving River. (Irrelevant to this episode -- perhaps necessary for expositin down the line, but that doesn't count. Each episode must grab and HOLD the viewer's attention, else the series fails.) Bog down the episode with a long discussion with Book. Then, the minute Mal & company get ready to pull the heist on the maglev, slam the brakes on the narrative by cutting away to a long irrelevant discussion twixt Book and the companion.
Kiddies, that's bad screenwriting with a vengeance.
Riiiiiiiiight, because you're a professional screenwriter, right? Is your name Joss Whedon? Joe Michael Straczynski? David E. Kelley? Alan Sorkin? Howard Gordon? Stephen Bochco? David Chase? Someone else? I take it you know all the "rules" of screenwriting and since many other people here, including me, enjoy the show and how it's written we must be stupid or something because we don't understand the innerworkings of screenwriting like you do. Can we see some examples of the work you've done? Or if you're not a screenwriter I'll assume you're a professional critic for some major media company or newspaper.
Or you could just be a troll.
Quote:
[4] Avoid upbeat endings like the plague. Good idea. We already start with a grim premise -- the bad guys lost WW II/the Civil War. And on top of that, what? Every episode seems to involve some new downer -- a universe in which justice never ever prevails, a Buffy The Vampire Slayer in wh ich Buffy can never slay a vamp...or even keep 'em from greasing civilians. Case in point: in "The Train Job" the supervillain on the skyplex gets away scot free. He's still out there, still hanging folks from the ceiling. Wonderful. Instead of watching "Firefly," how's 'bout I just cut my throat?
Writers can write whatever the hell they want to write, depressing or not. If it's what they want or need they'll put it in. Maybe we don't feel it's necessary but it's not what we want, it's what the writer wants.
We tend to put our expectations into shows and when we don't see what WE want to see we throw hissy fits, even though the writers know (or should know) what they're doing.
It's not our show. If you wa
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To quote Monty Python "I'm not dead yet!" FF's in a bad way, but Berman stressed that the show wasn't canned...yet. This is a great deal more optimistic than most. Most of the time, the suit would not go out of their way to stress that.
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[1] unebelievably depressing (Joss Whedon's fault). Imagine a future where the Nazis won. Fill a weekly show with French resistance members hiding out in Tieera Del Fuego. This ain't a recipe for fun, kiddies.
No, it isn't. Whedon said he wanted to make something about the people "history steps on." Yes, it is a tad pessimistic, but so were other shows I liked. X-Files couldn't have had a happy ending. Neither could the mother-of-all nasty endings, Blake's 7.
XF ends with the heroes scattered or dead, the alien/human deal cancelled and the alien invasion inevitable and unstoppable. The leads have lost their careers, their quest - even their child, and the final scene is the pair of them in a fleabag hotel in Roswell. Blake's 7 ends with one of the leads killing the other, then all of the so-called "heroes" get brutally gunned down.
And judging from what I've seen of Whedon's style, he seems to prefer a darker, sadder style. For all of the demons Buffy has slain, she still has so many of her own - dead family members, a destiny she never asked for, friends that betray her, and a fetish for vampires. she was even ripped brutally from the gates of heaven. In Titan AE, humanity is reduced to a group of homeless space bums. Now, in Firefly, we have a group of burned-out refugees and veterans who have lost damn near everything.
Honestly, though, I do hope the series gets a bit of optimism and an arc other than "survival." "Ariel was a huge step towards a mytharc and direction for the series.
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[2] We have no idea who these characters are (Fox networks' fault).
I dunno, I picked up a lot on the characters quickly. The interrogation scene in "Bushwacked" not only had me on the floor laughing my a** off, but gave me some great insights on who these folks were.
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Without the pilot episode, the screenwriters found themselves forced to insert exposition that clobbered every episode.
Ever see season 1 of TNG, DS9, or Voyager? Pre-made universe, two-hour aired pilot, and still a lot of exposition to wade through.
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Faced with a universe we dont' understand populated by folks we don't know in situations we're not familiar with, most viewers chose to tune out. Thanks, Fox. Brilliant decision to avoid showing the 2-hour pilot.
The universe makes pretty good sense to me. I had to go chewing through fan sites for information on episodes I didn't get to see, but it all pieces together nicely.
Oh, and the decisiuon to not run the pilot. Boneheaded, yes. Without precedent, no. Indeed the other space western I am a fan of aired the third episode first when TIIC thought the pilot "too dark" or "too talky" for a cartoon in 1986. Granted, it wasn't the BEST introduction for the characters, but it's not as bad as it could be.
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[3] Clunky screenwrtiing. Any professional writer worth hi/r salt knows you don't slam the brakes on the action to segue to irrelevant and annoying exposition. Whedon's always had this problem, and the canceled pilot made it worse.
I've not noticed this as much. Again, Wheadon's got an odd style, but it's one that can get the most out of a character and play the situation with honesty. There are other methods other than Archplot, and most screenwriters find some place that fits for them.
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[4] Avoid upbeat endings like the plague. Good idea. We already start with a grim premise -- the bad guys lost WW II/the Civil War. And on top of that, what?
This part is depressing, but I'm not sure the Alliance is as stable as it looks. To be honest, they seem to be stretched mighty thin, and need the resources of the backwater worlds to sustain its cities. Now, checking history, that was one of the reasons Rome collapsed.
Also, from
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Quote:
Originally posted by xed:
[2]The whole second episode made no sense (What's a Reaver?).
The reavers won't be explained in the pilot...if you watched attentivly instead of only finding reason to bitch(wait maybe it's just that you don't have a big enough attention span to follow a show like that) you would have understood what the reavers were, they explained it very well and the guy they found on that ship pretty much became a reaver himself after what the reavers did to him...
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I hate to say it but xed has a point. His reasons are valid as to why the show could fail....the show doesn't appeal to a mass audiance. Saddly Xed represents the majority of people who consume mass television...I wouldn't go as far as saying it deserves to fail. But xed illistraits very clearly why it could fail....I wish he was wrong. :(
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Hey Haken! I think we have another thread that needs to be deligated to Troll Country!
And here's an idea: If you don't like a show, DONT GO POSTING ON FAN SITES. Go to www.ihatefirefly.com and post there. Or make your own website. But to go on a fan site and the only opinon you have is, "Dude, this show sucks" is just rude. If you aren't smart enough to pay attention to the episodes and form inteligent opinions about said episodes, then go somewhere else, cause you're cloging up my bandwidth.
________________
"Dear Diary, Today I was pompous and my sister was crazy. Today we were kidnapped by hill folk never to be seen again. And it was the best day ever!"
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