Insanity or Genius - Fortune-teller or Deadly Killer ?

POSTED BY: JaynezTown
UPDATED: Friday, December 10, 2004 09:11
VIEWED: 6911
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JAYNEZTOWN

Saturday, August 7, 2004 2:32 PM

River what is she ? One second it's like Insanity the next she comes out with Genius -

I noticed in the Campanion Powers thread some folk said some ideas on River like shes a Psychic Fortune-teller who can see the future and read people's minds, a type of clairvoyance.

Others say River is a created weapon or Deadly Killer

Here's my take, I don't believe that River has any super natural powers or magical ways to see into the future however I think see can read people

To explain my Theory I shall start at Ariel when they're in hospital, here we see a visual of her brain and you see the cerebellum is not reduced so she's not an autistic person. River seems to have heightned emotional needs, and a hyper active mind. The image of her brain suddenly illuminates and shines, it looks a little like one of those PET scans of the brain where you can see different parts glow according to their use such as hearing, seeing, speaking and thinking we also see variuous extensions of the brains limbic system. It is said that a normal person can only use around 9-11% of their brain at any one time, what if the experimentation made River use 85% to 95% of her mind at one time. This might also explain why River seems so incoherent at times, there is also the question of how a thinking mind and lanugage develop. It is said that many of us often thinking the way we speak or think just the smae as we would write, yet there are some people who think best in shapes, concepts and images and almost never use language when they think do themselves, no verbal or visual thinkers have included great people like Michael Faraday, Einstein and Da Vinci
so could experimentation in the distant force some person to become a visual thinker? I think also that River's senses and perseption may be heightened, she might be able to read subtle experssions, tune into emotions, or sense location or direction much like birds or other animals seem to have an internal compass which would help them navigate or like animals can sense danger. The human body gives off many signals, our bodies produce heat, our vocals crate noise vibartions and voice, the brain produces electrical signals and the body emits sweat, smell and pheromones. Could an enhanced mind detect all these subtle signals or maybe a special mind mind be able to detect some persons inner thoughts ( and thoughts are just electrical pulses and signals ), perhaps a special brain could tune into these signals like a radio reciever can pick up stations and broadcasts, maybe she can read people's energy or feelings. I like the moment when she's eaves-dropping on a discussion.
So is Simon's young little mei-mei River a well crafted killing machine and can there ever be a mind-killer where some person can attack by using their mind rather than weapons or fists. Perhaps a transformed mind like rivers might be able to send pulses or signals outward to others, this might be like when you see a skilled opera singer sing out a note which has enough power to shatter a glass. Is this what the experimentation on River was supposed to create ?
I think 'Objects in Space' and 'Ariel' were fantastic episodes where we got to see more of what happened with River. She sometimes displays a nasty reaction to anything Blue-Sun, I wonder why is that ? Trash and Out-of-Gas were also interesting, in Trash she can read Jayne and feels he is somewhat of a danger to them and can sense his feelings and experssions of guilt betrayal, in out of Gas it's like she's almost in tune with the Ship and what's going to happen next.

Anyone have any ideas on the blue Sun connection, what experiments happened or who these two by 2 , hands-of-blue people are ?

EMBERS

Saturday, August 7, 2004 2:53 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by JaynezTown:

Anyone have any ideas on the blue Sun connection, what experiments happened or who these two by 2 , hands-of-blue people are ?

I subscribe to a huge Government/Military/Corporate conspiracy...
(just like in RL! LOL)
Where BlueSun pretty much owns the Govt, and therefore the military as well.
They are a rich conglomerate, with billions/trillions of dollars,
making all kinds of products, selling all kinds of services,
who want to force all the outer planets and independent people to work for them or buy their products...
No one can stop them, they are behind everything.
They are the reason Fox cancelled the show...
and if they can they will try to corupt Universal
be afraid....be very afraid...

your brain is next!

(okay, maybe I need to check my meds)

CORWYN

Saturday, August 7, 2004 11:08 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by JaynezTown:
River what is she ? One second it's like Insanity the next she comes out with Genius -

Here's my take, I don't believe that River has any super natural powers or magical ways to see into the future however I think see can read people

I agree, though I will add the caveat that she hasn't SHOWN psychic or magical powers. (As I say elsewhere I am willing to be convinced).

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people like Michael Faraday, Einstein and Da Vinci

Try understanding the mind of Tesla sometime...

Quote:
The human body gives off many signals, our bodies produce heat, our vocals crate noise vibartions and voice, the brain produces electrical signals and the body emits sweat, smell and pheromones. Could an enhanced mind detect all these subtle signals or maybe a special mind mind be able to detect some persons inner thoughts ( and thoughts are just electrical pulses and signals ), perhaps a special brain could tune into these signals like a radio reciever can pick up stations and broadcasts, maybe she can read people's energy or feelings. I like the moment when she's eaves-dropping on a discussion.

Well, when she wants to know what people are saying about her in the dining room, she doesn't sit in her room and read their minds; she stands on the railing where she can overhear. That said I think we can currently make lie-detectors which don't need to be connected; they also aren't sensing anything we in theory can't.

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So is Simon's young little mei-mei River a well crafted killing machine

I think that you may be jumping to conclusions about the purpose of the blue-hands. Killing machine seems too small a goal for all that work. Early is almost as good and orders of magnitude cheaper.

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and can there ever be a mind-killer where some person can attack by using their mind rather than weapons or fists. Perhaps a transformed mind like rivers might be able to send pulses or signals outward to others, this might be like when you see a skilled opera singer sing out a note which has enough power to shatter a glass. Is this what the experimentation on River was supposed to create ?

She was pulling Jayne's leg. Even if she could kill him with her brain, she couldn't survive it, and she knows it.

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Trash and Out-of-Gas were also interesting, in Trash she can read Jayne and feels he is somewhat of a danger to them and can sense his feelings and experssions of guilt betrayal.

No, she tells Simon that Jayne has been scared of them since Ariel. She got it back then.

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in out of Gas it's like she's almost in tune with the Ship and what's going to happen next.

Really debatable. She says 'fire'. Simon thinks she is talking about the candles. It could easily be that she senses the fire before any of the others, but this is only AFTER the wierd noise has occurred.

Thank You Kindly.

LTNOWIS

Sunday, August 8, 2004 1:02 AM

Well, I tend to think she's psychic, but let's just say I could be convinced otherwise. We've seen some pretty strong hints at it, and some evidence. There's the hospital scene where her brain lights up and she screams. And knowing Mal was making faces in Out of Gas, as well as Early's character. How do you explain that? Mind you, the evidence might not convince me in the real world but in Sci-fi ESP's a pretty standard thing, and thus pretty likely.

CORWYN

Sunday, August 8, 2004 1:42 AM

Here's the crux of the question. Did you think she turned into the ship?

Thank You Kindly.

LTNOWIS

Sunday, August 8, 2004 3:38 AM

I was pretty skeptical when she appeared to be the ship. During the commercials I was thinking "No, that can't be. Or could it? Wow, I wonder how that would affect the rest of the series." Anyways, River's "Dont make faces." comment looks like a pretty good example of psychic power. Either that or a lucky guess. But the way she knew Early's past just by seeing his ship seems pretty telling to me.

JAYNEZTOWN

Sunday, August 8, 2004 4:06 AM

If she's in tune with the Ship or not is a real mystery, it's hard to say

On the subject of reading minds and looking into people's thoughts, you might say she has heightened perception and an almost uncanny to read people. Take signs like pupil dilation, emotional arousal and altered heart rate form the basis of lie-detector tests. Even unaided by machines, the best police interrogators can reportedly tell if someone is lying in most cases, maybe River is skilled like this. Take for example psychic performers or the techniques typically associated with psychics and mediums. When psychic perfromers ( those who don't have powers ) are trying to talk to a dead family member, they will often start by talking sketchy or incoherent..they might start off by saying ' I get a feeling of a old place, I'm somewhere far away, did something tragic happen'.. This is the start of their technique and they ( the psychic performers ) are trying to gather subtle information from the other person...for example if the performer says "8, the 8th month, 8-years, August" and somebody bites by saying "Dad died in August" and the guest thinks it was the spirtiual performer told her that fact rather than the other way around, this is how critics and skeptics view fortune reading. Is it possible that River's mind is so enhanced and altered that she can pick up on the subtle signals left off by people that only a well trained fortune teller might accomplish ? If this were the case it might explain how River seems to be able to read minds but without supernatural powers.

However there are other moments in the show, when she does stuff that implies that she really is a mind reader with some kind of magical power.

I wonder what those hands-of-blue folk wanted her for, and what was the purpose of the experiments on her mind

DACUTE1

Sunday, August 8, 2004 5:57 AM

I believe it is the commentary of Objects in Space where Joss comments that the farthest he was willing to go Sci Fi wise was having River psychic. It seems the intention of the writers was to make her psychic, or as Mal says a reader, which really is a good term for it. She doesn't predict long term visions but there are things that she knows that she couldn't possibly know otherwise; ie (Safe) Ruby's mother going crazy and killing her sister. Somebody that was able to read situations would figure out that something tramatic happened in Ruby's life but the details? Not really. (Shindig) Sad little king of a sad little hill, she tears Badger apart and leaves him to dry. Again, some things would be able to look at a person and tell but she knows what Badger is and lays it out there. (Objects in Space) Same thing with Early, picture can tell a thousand words but it takes a little more than intuition to know that Early's mother was afraid of him. We actually see her reading thoughts during the beginning of OiS.

No, I don't think that River can literally kill someone with her brain, but she can kill you with a hand gun with her eyes closed in one shot. That's pretty scary to me.

A question that I have about her. During Shindig, how lucid was she? Did she pick up on the conversation about needing a distraction, and is that why she made her speech?

The question of what the Alliance, or Blue Sun as we're seeing, wants with her, was planning on doing with her is still a mystery, but I do agree that I don't think it's turning her into an assasin, she's too precious for that. The only thing I can come up with is for her to become psychic, she was already brilliant, I can't imagine why else they would mess with her perceptions so much. And why else would Blue Sun be so sensitive to government talking to her? So she wouldn't read them? Just thought.

ooo Becki

Kaylee: Wash, tell me I'm pretty
Wash: Were I unwed I would take you in a manly fashion
Kaylee: 'Cause I'm pretty?
Wash: 'Cause you're pretty

THEREALME

Sunday, August 8, 2004 8:16 AM

Hi.

I had comments about River's psychic powers, and what I thought was evidence for them, on the Companion Powers thread. I might repeat some of them here, which is, of course, a better place for it.

However, an important fact that we must remember: whatever River's captives were doing to her wasn't finished yet. River is only a partly-done whatever. Simon pulled her out too soon.

The Real Me

LTNOWIS

Sunday, August 8, 2004 3:54 PM

Quote:
However there are other moments in the show, when she does stuff that implies that she really is a mind reader with some kind of magical power.

Yeah, while much of the evidence can be dismissed, I think there's certainly a strong implication of her psychicness. However, I don't think her power is magical or spiritual in any way. I think it was Jasonzzz who was explaining to me how he didn't think River could have any ability beyond super-logic, as this was a sci-fi show without any mysticism. I disagree. Oftentimes I refer to her power as ESP, as is more science-sounding and it's easier to type. There are psychics in Star Wars, Star Trek, and Stargate, so I really think this is as grounded in science as artificial gravity or FTL travel. It's a lot like in Minority Report. Anyway, that's my take on it.

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