If Whedon had originally intended Mal to be more dark....
POSTED BY: lightinthebrainpan
UPDATED: Monday, August 9, 2004 10:55
VIEWED: 15790
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I'd love to see the original, un-chippered Mal in the BDM. To have a character who's name is 'bad', who's briefest character description is 'loss', be happy and playful all the time is just silly. The balance in The Train Job and Our Mrs Reynolds and such was ok, but the darker Mal of Serenity is much more honest.
t
Jayne: "These are stone killers, little man. They ain't cuddly like me."
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Quote:
Originally posted by thoreau:
I'd love to see the original, un-chippered Mal in the BDM. To have a character who's name is 'bad', who's briefest character description is 'loss', be happy and playful all the time is just silly. The balance in The Train Job and Our Mrs Reynolds and such was ok, but the darker Mal of Serenity is much more honest.
I agree. I'd like to see the Captain as Whedon originally-originally conceived of him; though, as others have said, Whedon probably did always plan that Mal would have SOME kind of sarcastic/sardonic twist of humor to him. Just maybe not as much as he ended up having.
I wonder if Fillion worries about getting the darkness right in "Serenity"! One thing I remember from my (as yet one and only) viewing of the DVD is Fillion saying that he wasn't satisfied with the "mean Mal" scene post-Niska-torture. I can imagine him analyzing the dailies....
And Inara is the female "darkness" to Mal's male darkness? There's the theory that Mal is the father figure and Inara is the mother figure, but I see Inara as dark as Mal is...for reasons we do not know yet, of course.
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Quote:
Originally posted by thoreau:
I'd love to see the original, un-chippered Mal in the BDM. To have a character who's name is 'bad', who's briefest character description is 'loss', be happy and playful all the time is just silly. The balance in The Train Job and Our Mrs Reynolds and such was ok, but the darker Mal of Serenity is much more honest.
I think he's equally honest in all those episodes, considering what was going on. In Serenity, they were a)close to destitute, b)carrying an Alliance mole & fugitives, c)double-crossed by Badger, d)dealing with Kaylee being shot, e)forced to deal with a less-than-trustworthy Patience, f)double-crossed by Patience, and let's not forget, g)pursued by Reavers. Oh, and h)very nearly busted by the Alliance. Precious little time there for doing anything but staying alive by the skin of their teeth. So we got a visibly darker, more intensely-focused Mal.
Whereas in Our Mrs. Reynolds, no-one knew what the hell was going on for a good deal of the episode, most particularly (and most amusingly) Mal. There was no reason or place for darkness until they found out what Saffron was up to, and it would have been extremely out of character for Mal to be Serenity-dark with the big-eyed,innocent,submissive, passive-agressive girl Saffron was pretending to be.
As someone said earlier, if Mal was dark and brooding all the time, he would be Sunnydale Angel, who I thought was was very irritating and very one-dimensional.
I think it would be more dishonest if Mal were Serenity-dark all the time, even if the situation didn't warrant it, and we do see that darkness in almost every episode, when the time is right. He doesn't just go off into fits of depression, because he's got 8 people and a ship that depend on him. For Mal to ignore that responsibility and let himself be always overwhelmed by his inner demons would also be out-of-character. In my opinion, the responsibility for ship & crew are a large part of what help him keep that darkness at bay. Ironically, that responsibility is also what will bring outthe darkness quicker than anything.
"You two are the two who are the two! I'm the other one!"
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Quote:
Originally posted by SSJ4BlackBelt:
Joss and Tim also mentioned in the commentaries that they didnt know if things would have ended up they way they did in the show had they not turned Mal into a friendlier person. I believe Joss is bringing back the darker Mal in the movie (ie. the bank robbery in the trailer) and I cannot wait to see what Joss truly intended for Mal.
Was reading all the interesting bits above (nice commentary on this thread!) and stopped here. Something went 'bing' in my mellon. ;p
Seems to me, Joss let go. That is, he seems ot have approched the creation of his characters with the same designs as he has done before but, unlike in the past, has let the characters go in directions THEY want to go. Fillion is perfect for the role not because of his take on it but because Joss has the brains to let it happen. Which is, I think, new to Joss. Fillion is simply so great we are even more facinated by his character now that it has forgone the iconic (and limiting) "dark Mal" that Joss created.
Reminds me of that scene (in Ariel I think) when Mal pulls Kaylee over for a huge after the adventure was over that day. It wasn't in the script and in the commentary of the show Joss says he just let it happen; "Nathan just grabbed Jewel and hugged her. We kept it in".
I think this is a new thing for Joss. He's letting go. He's letting "it" happen.
Just one of the things about Firefly that keep me interested and the characters, like Mal, interesting. Trust me, "Dark Mal" would have been boring from show one!
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Quote:
Originally posted by Sikkukut:
Now the question is, are people going to like it? I'm guessing we're all capable of appreciating both sides of Firefly, but we've certainly gotten to know the Captain as... well, kind of a wacky guy sometimes. Train job especially. One hopes that "darker" does not mean it'll lack the humor to which we've grown accustomed.
When we refer to the "darker" Mal, are we all on the same page here? I haven't seen the "original" Serenity pilot, just the DVD version, which I understand has a glimpse of the "darker" version at least.
Mal as seen in the series was hardly what I would describe as "wacky" - but the fact is that if Mal was "dark", the only people left on that boat would be maybe Zoe and Wash - the rest would have left. I have always assumed that the reference to darker was more along the lines of that the lows for Mal would have been lower.
"I threw up on your bed"
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Is it not possible to like the whole gamut of Mal? I think that the episodes Tim and Joss did are more well written than some of the others, but in "Serenity" he was serious, sometimes even downright grim, but in the same episode, he was busting out laughing. "The Message" showed us a much darker Mal, whereas Train Job and Shindig showed a much more humorous Mal. The context is the important part. "The Message" was serious. An old war buddy in trouble, and he ends up having to kill his old friend. There's a reason to be serious. But in Train Job, it was Mal enjoying what he does in the crime. In Shindig, he fights not only with a sword, but another weapon, which is his dry wit.
I think that the character of Mal is whole and, while perhaps adjusted for Fox, not necessarily poorly so. It gives a whole picture. I identify with the wholeness of the thing. I'm not generally what one calls a cheerful person, but this is not to say that when amongst friends and family that I can't let loose and laugh. Mal loves his friends. He lost the ability to express that very well in Serenity, but his inability to show this at times doesn't diminish its truth. I think a darker Mal would be a bad thing. He's got just enough brooding and bru-ha-ha and bravado. I imagine the BDM will allow more exploration of the characters than the tv show allowed, but at the same time, I don't think there's much that will fundamentally change. If there is a darkening for Mal in the movie, I believe that by the end of the movie, or at least by the end of the series of movies, he will be at a higher place in the mood scale than when he started. He seems a man that wants so very bad to remember what it's like to be a happy man, but can't find the way. Inara could show him if they could get over the social hooey surrounding Inara's employ. But I digress.
Conclusion: Mal perfect as is. Fillion does damn good job of making Mal work.
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ZOE: Now we have a boatful of citizens right on top of our... stolen cargo. That's a fun mix.
MAL: Ain't no way in the 'verse they could find that compartment, even--Even if they were lookin' for it.
ZOE: Why not?
MAL: 'Cause... ?
ZOE: Oh yeah, this is gonna go great.
MAL: If anyone gets nosy, just, you know...shoot 'em.
ZOE: Shoot 'em?
MAL: Politely.
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Quote:
Originally posted by embers:
altho admittedly he had to recast Inara.
But in the commentary, it sounded like he knew before start of filming that his original choice wasn't up to what he wanted. (He filmed the original actress almost entirely in single shots so, when he cast Morena, the other eight actors didn't have to redo much to replace all of her scenes.) That sounds more like a case of slim pickings, rather than a poor initial choice.
Keep the Shiny Side Up
Wutzon: George Thurogood, "Bad to the Bone"
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Quote:
When we refer to the "darker" Mal, are we all on the same page here? I haven't seen the "original" Serenity pilot, just the DVD version, which I understand has a glimpse of the "darker" version at least.
I don't think we are all talking about the same thing. The final (DVD) version of the pilot does show Mal being tense and darker than the rest of the series, but nowhere near how the 'original' pilot portrayed him. The only sign of a sense of humor in the original was the sick joke he played on Simon. It was NO surprise at all when he shot the lawman dead. When I watched it, I kept waiting for all the scenes that I liked the most to come ... and they didnt. The 'darker' scenes in the DVD pilot were those that were left in. The new ones added a nice balance.
While I DON't agree with Fox's forced reworking of The Train Job as a pilot, I think Fox did give Joss a push in the right direction, and he took it from there ... and found out he had a winner.
I'm not a Buffy fan, but people I know who are tend not to like the 'darker' seasons so much. Maybe it's a necessary progression for the character, but Joss has to be careful with that. He has to keep a balance, or the truly dark times don't stand out. I got tired of Alias real fast--it was like the girl was afraid her face would crack if she smiled. I don't care how much her life sucked--she was No fun to be around.
A character can be in a dark place and still crack a joke--even if they don't much feel like it. That's part of their character, too. Contrast is everything. It's much less interesting when you have a 'low point' versus a 'lower point.'
(Edited to add): The original pilot is worth watching ... but ONCE is quite enough. Mal is just not the same person. Knowing how much of a jokester Nathan Fillion really is, it was just too much not to see him smile.
Jen dao mei.
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