The AI in a box
POSTED BY: AnthonyT
UPDATED: Sunday, June 16, 2024 13:18
VIEWED: 10794
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Quote:Yes. Do we treat electrons as if they were human?
Hello, Well, I am human, and my ethics mean something to me. ... Do I really have to become inhuman to deal with the inhuman?
People believed that the gods were "angry" if left w/o proper obeisance and propitiation, or would "smile on them" if adequately gifted. They sacrificed to the rain/ game/ disease/ thunder/ volcano gods as if they were petulant leaders. (Still do, in many areas of the globe. BTW- how humans treated their "gods" says more about the human power structure than anything about nature. Just saying.)
Quote:Are you saying the sun is human? The Ebola virus? We "dehumanize" all the time. It is up to YOU where you draw the line. You've drawn the line at "ethics"... and rather "one-sided" ethics at that... but you fail to realize that most of nature does not have an ethical response.
Why, then anyone could dehumanize someone, and I'd be free to deal with them inhumanly. I'll hold on to my ethics. I'll hold on to my humanity. Even in the face of the unknown. I'll leave it to the inhumans to be inhumane.
Bored now, and tired of repeating myself. TTUL
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Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:Quote:Yes.
Hello, Well, I am human, and my ethics mean something to me. The human realm to the left of one ear and the right of the other. Do I really have to become inhuman to deal with the inhuman?
People used to sacrifice to the rain/ game/ disease volcano gods before they realized that these systems were inhuman. People believed that the gods were "angry" if left w/o proper obeisance and propitiation, or would "smile on them" if adequately gifted. They treated non-human phenomena as if it were a petulant leader. (Still do, in many areas of the globe. BTW- how humans treated their "gods" says more about the human power structure than anything about nature. Just saying.)
Quote:Are you saying the sun is human? The Ebola virus? We "dehumanize" all the time. It is up to YOU where you draw the line. I've drawn mine.
Why, then anyone could dehumanize someone, and I'd be free to deal with them inhumanly.
I'll hold on to my ethics. I'll hold on to my humanity. Even in the face of the unknown.
I'll leave it to the inhumans to be inhumane.
Hello,
Your argument falls flat unless you believe the sun, mountains, and other natural phenomenon are intelligent and free willed.
The criteria of the thought experiment is that there is an intelligence in a box and that it wants to be free.
Not a natural insensate force.
You are treating a free-willed intelligence like you would treat a germ.
I can not reconcile this comparison.
--Anthony
_______________________________________________
“If you are not free to choose wrongly and irresponsibly, you are not free at all”
Jacob Hornberger
“Freedom is not worth having if it does not connote freedom to err. It passes my comprehension how human beings, be they ever so experienced and able, can delight in depriving other human beings of that precious right.”
Mahatma Gandhi
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Quote:Too bad for you, then. We are ruled by insensate forces, even within ourselves.
Your argument falls flat unless you believe the sun, mountains, and other natural phenomenon are intelligent and free willed. The criteria of the thought experiment is that there is an intelligence in a box and that it wants to be free. Not a natural insensate force.
Quote:Then you are not treating a sensate force with the fear it deserves. Your ethics have become inflexible and anti-human.
You are treating a free-willed intelligence like you would treat a germ. I can not reconcile this comparison.
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Might.
Could.
Possibly.
Maybe...
NOT GOOD ENOUGH - without a demonstrable history of hostile and dangerous behavior, you have no excuse, at least not any one that I would countenance.
It's kind of funny, Anthony - from a certain perspective your one post commentary rather reminds me of Rorshach.
Quote:
Originally posted by AnthonyT:
I'll hold on to my ethics. I'll hold on to my humanity. Even in the face of the unknown.
"Never compromise. Not even in the face of Armageddon." - Rorshach.
I think most people, most decent ones that is, have SOME principle, or principles, they'll hold out on to the very last - and what those are, that says a lot about them.
I do note the irony of asking this question of an Anarchist on May Day holiday, and then expecting any answer other than the one you got.
And I have more trouble to cause today, sooo...
-Frem
I do not serve the Blind God.
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"ETA: Maybe you should define how you intend to set it free."
Hello,
Giving it access to the world, and the freedom to make of that access what it will. It might escape to the internet, to a robot toy dog from China, or whatever it wants to do once it is out of the box. It doesn't matter where it goes, because if your doomsday scenario is online access, it could conceivably achieve that access at will once it is free (just like the rest of us, though possibly more efficiently.) It would be up to the AI to decide what it wanted to do.
--Anthony
_______________________________________________
“If you are not free to choose wrongly and irresponsibly, you are not free at all”
Jacob Hornberger
“Freedom is not worth having if it does not connote freedom to err. It passes my comprehension how human beings, be they ever so experienced and able, can delight in depriving other human beings of that precious right.”
Mahatma Gandhi
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Frem you serve the Blind God, because your god is blind. I am not assuming anything but you are. You have a mantra which you would apply in absence of knowledge. I would test its power for mischief. Always keep your eye on reality. A totally self-referencing system is blind.
Anyway, like I said: Bored now. TTUL.
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Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:Quote:Too bad for you, then. We are ruled by insensate forces, even within ourselves.
Your argument falls flat unless you believe the sun, mountains, and other natural phenomenon are intelligent and free willed. The criteria of the thought experiment is that there is an intelligence in a box and that it wants to be free. Not a natural insensate force.Quote:Then you are not treating a sensate force with the fear it deserves. Your ethics have become inflexible and anti-human.
You are treating a free-willed intelligence like you would treat a germ. I can not reconcile this comparison.
Hello,
I hope you'll forgive me for saying so, but your argument boils down to this:
'If I believe an intelligence has the capacity to harm me, whether or not it has actually done so, I will violate its rights.'
There is no reason to think you wouldn't apply this argument to people who you considered to lack sufficient empathy, and thus not deserving of human rights.
--Anthony
_______________________________________________
“If you are not free to choose wrongly and irresponsibly, you are not free at all”
Jacob Hornberger
“Freedom is not worth having if it does not connote freedom to err. It passes my comprehension how human beings, be they ever so experienced and able, can delight in depriving other human beings of that precious right.”
Mahatma Gandhi
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Quote:"Rights" are granted by social contract... by other humans. There are no such things as "rights" in the real world. We cannot expect to be given "rights" by the sun, or the ocean, or dolphins. "Rights" are intimately tied to our human morals and human social structures.
'If I believe an intelligence has the capacity to harm me, whether or not it has actually done so, I will violate its rights.'
In fact, I would do away with the term "rights" altogether, if I could, and replace it with the word "expectations", which I find to be a much more concrete description of the reality of "rights".
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Hello,
If you governed your world based on expectations, then you would be capable of virtually anything when confronted with people who might mean you harm.
Expectations give you terrific latitude in your responses.
No, I do not choose to change 'rights' to 'expectations.'
The rights I grant you far exceed the expectations I have from you. You have to do something much more concrete than give me uncomfortable expectations before I will consent to reducing your rights.
--Anthony
_______________________________________________
“If you are not free to choose wrongly and irresponsibly, you are not free at all”
Jacob Hornberger
“Freedom is not worth having if it does not connote freedom to err. It passes my comprehension how human beings, be they ever so experienced and able, can delight in depriving other human beings of that precious right.”
Mahatma Gandhi
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I find DT's argument much more persuasive.
Quote:You insist on framing a non-human entity with (potentially) super-human forces into the monkey-sphere.
An AI, even if endowed with the same sense, would require nothing to ensure its survival. If we are a threat to us, it might take us out intentionally, but if it weren't aware of it at all, it might do it anyway. [It would view oxygen as a toxin for example- Signy] ...
That said, there is no guarantee that if it were smart enough it would follow that. The results would be wildly unpredictable. Adding something powerful and unpredictable to the world and hoping for good results is not a good idea.
And on top of that, you assume that my interactions with people are determined by my interactions with non-people, as if I don't make distinctions. Since you refuse to make distinctions, you assume I refuse to make distinctions. If you can't understand me, how the hell do you think you're going understand AI?
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