futuristic lesbianism
POSTED BY: tomerai
UPDATED: Tuesday, October 12, 2004 18:05
VIEWED: 9811
PAGE 3 of 4
Truthseeker, welcome to the site!
But sorry, I have to disagree. Speaking as a heterosexual male, I count "bisexual" as a minus in a prospective female. Not from any moral or religious point of view, mind you, but just...
Damn! Now I've got twice the competition! 
The Real Me
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I don't think it's at all crazy for people to be more uptight about lesbians in the future. The amount of social liberalism in a culture waxes and wanes. A few decades ago, abortions were much more common than they are today. Likewise, the Greeks were a lot more promiscouis 2,000 years ago than they are now. In Firefly, they're more tolerant of some things, like prostitution, and less tolerant of other things, like witchcraft.
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Quote:
Originally posted by TheRealMe:
Truthseeker, welcome to the site!
Why, thank you.
Quote:
But sorry, I have to disagree. Speaking as a heterosexual male, I count "bisexual" as a minus in a prospective female. Not from any moral or religious point of view, mind you, but just...
Damn! Now I've got twice the competition!
The Real Me
Interesting. Of course, I was drawing a conclusion based purely on my own experience. It's nice to know there a guys who aren't so predictable.
And, to clarify:
Quote:
Originally posted by shinyseven:
The first time I saw "Serenity," I was definitely thinking about Kaylee/Inara too--but to be fair, when Mal says "So you're servicing crew now?" Inara says "Only in your sick mind."
Unless, of course, Inara means that she isn't "servicing" Kaylee as a client, they're having a relationship.
Oh, I don't think that scene is hinting at anything more than friendship between Inara and Kaylee. I do think it's a clever way of establishing several character points at once: Inara's role as nurturer, Kaylee's wistful appreciation of Inara's glamorous lifestyle, the warmth of their friendship transcending their different backgrounds, and Mal's attempts to cover his interest in Inara with gruff captainess and jokes.
At the same time, I will defend to the death my right to fantasize about alternate endings to that scene and others, whether or not they be supported by the Firefly canon. 
And on a more serious note,
Quote:
Originally posted by LtNOWIS:
I don't think it's at all crazy for people to be more uptight about lesbians in the future. The amount of social liberalism in a culture waxes and wanes. A few decades ago, abortions were much more common than they are today. Likewise, the Greeks were a lot more promiscouis 2,000 years ago than they are now. In Firefly, they're more tolerant of some things, like prostitution, and less tolerant of other things, like witchcraft.
Interesting point about accepted norms changing over time. Another aspect of the FF 'verse is the melding of eastern and western cultures which have at various times in history had vastly different attitudes towards sex in general, and homosexuality in particular.
On the other hand, I think many of the settlement planets that Serenity visits, especially the one in "Safe" that you refer to, are populated by the kind of zealots who like to take off for the frontier (or built fortified compounds) to escape the "moral/spiritual/inset-adjective-here decay" of the larger society so that they can have the freedom to repress and persecute their own people without interference. As such, each of them might well be enclaves for any of the prejudices, bigotry, and general sliminess which human beings are prey to, but wouldn't be representative of the 'verse at large.
Our favorite crew, on the other hand, as an eclectic group with various backgrounds, beliefs, etc., seem to me to be a more likely representative of 'versal attitudes. No one on the ship displays any reactions which I would call 'uptight' to Inara's female client.
As your tag line says, "Unite all the planets so everyone can be interfered with or ignored equally." I get the feeling that as far as the Alliance is concerned, you can do whatever you want in bed as long as you pay your taxes, and as far as the Independents are concerned, when your ideological goal is to "never have to be under the heel of nobody ever again," it doesn't make sense to live in a closet, or expect anyone else to. Not that people always make sense in their attitudes, mind you, but our crew at least seem pretty open minded about accepting people as they are. Besides, living in such close quarters, it'd be pretty had to hide who you really were for long.
Except if you're Book.
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Ha ha ha, this site is really that great. We can talk in all seriousness but still be humorous and witty on the very touchiest of subjects in our present society. Firefly fans are the best.
Enough of my sucking up though...
I won't add anything of an opinion but just an observation and thought. Don't some of the BDH's check out this site and actually post here? ^_^
I'm sure the lovely Jewel Staite and Morena Baccarin would sure get a kick out of the "companion + mechanic" comment, ha ha ha ha.
Don't worry, it's definitely all in fun.
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Quote:
Originally posted by truthseeker:Quote:
Originally posted by TheRealMe:
Truthseeker, welcome to the site!
Why, thank you.
Oooo! A kiss! Thanks.
* The Real Me gingerly takes the kiss and places it in a shoe box next to another one. *
I'm collecting these.
The Real Me
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Hello, aRoundBrowncoat!
Goodness! Lots of new folks lately. Good sign of things to come.
Yes, this is a terrific site, for which we should thank Haken.
Jewel has posted here a few times and it is said that Jewel's mother was a regular at one time.
I don't know of any other BDHs to post here, though Adam was big on the OB (Old, or "official" Board). I think Nathan was as well.
The Real Me
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Quote:
Originally posted by CaptainHarbatkin:
My mom kissed me all the time, and I don't recall having sex with her. And she took off my clothes, massaged me, all sorts of things - and yet, STILL no sex... What do you suppose that MEANS!!!!!
She's the Queen of Diamonds?
Keep the Shiny Side Up
Wutzon: Widespread Panic, "Climb to Safety", from "Til the Medicine Takes"
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Quote:
Originally posted by YT:
She's the Queen of Diamonds?
Any Manchurian Candidate reference deserves a
.As regards the ostensible topic of this thread, I don't think we should be so quick to assume that temporal progress is the same as social progress. Consider the fate of the Islamic Caliphate after the 10th century, the West after the sack of Rome, the Balkans after the fall of Communism, or Africa after colonialism (obligatory nod to social dislocations caused by colonialism in the first place). For that matter, consider the remarkable rightward shift in American economic and political opinion since the 1930s.
Likewise, China and India have some of the oldest sophisticated cultures on earth, but the social attitudes have scarcely changed for millenia. There's no reason to see these as "retrogression" or "stagnation" (unless you're a Hegelian, or neoconservative), but they are simply a reflection of the fact that there are a great many possible cultural configurations.
In the case of Firefly, we're looking at a culture that seems to be equal parts Chinese Imperial sophistication and American Western Expansion ruggedness. There's nothing within either culture that necessarily lends itself to recognition of inalienable human rights. (Case in point: The Independents continually talk about the right to be free from the Alliance, but there's certainly a high incidence of slavery on those frontier worlds. Freedom ain't always what it's cracked up to be.)
In the script, I certainly have the impression that the politician who frequents Inara considers her sexuality to be a political minus. Given that the company of the "ambassador" is something men of stature openly compete for, this suggests to me that lesbianism if not homosexuality in general is considered somewhat questionable or perhaps shameful. (The attitudes in a low-class brothel probably shouldn't be taken as representative of the culture at large.)
So, I'd say that Joss simply shows us that prejudice and intolerance, like the poor, are with us always.
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Quote:
Originally posted by Reveal:
So, I'd say that Joss simply shows us that prejudice and intolerance, like the poor, are with us always.
Damn those poor.
Anyway, to the man who kisses his mother, I hope you don't kiss your mother like Inara and the Councilor were kissing. Or vice versa. And this wasn't a mother and a child, this was two beautiful adult women. See, there's nothing wrong with passionate kissing while undressing between adult women of non-relation. Whereas you take a mother and child and throw in passionate kissing and undressing, well, "That's downright unsettling."
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http://tomeofgrey.blogspot.com/
Coming Soon: JedSoft!
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I read the shooting script, too, and the scene where Inara goes the councilor's home was embarassing, I thought, because it had the potential of her husband finding out she was paying for a bit of Companionship on the side. Not worried about her voters, if she has any.
Dan
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