Japan - It's worse than you know....
POSTED BY: AURaptor
UPDATED: Monday, December 16, 2024 06:17
VIEWED: 6776
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Pretty freaky videos, that speak for themselves. Just a couple, but there's more out there. I just heard about this myself recently, so sorry if it's old news to others.
" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "
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Hello,
It's about as bad as I thought. But I thought it was pretty darn bad to begin with. I wish they'd catch a break.
When this started, I commented that everything the government and energy company was saying about the reactor reminded me of everything the Soviets said to downplay Chernobyl.
It gave me a creepy big case of Déjà vu.
I pray for the Japanese. I wish they'd turn to the world and make a desperate plea for help. I know it's not in their nature to do so, but I think it may be time. I'd rather see them live long lives than die with dignity.
Also, if radiation renders portions of the country uninhabitable, we need to consider immigration law changes to accommodate whoever would like to come on over. Those islands are already pressed for living space.
--Anthony
Assured by friends that the signal-to-noise ratio has improved on this forum, I have disabled web filtering.
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They've known about liquefaction for a long time. Anytime you have an area composed of sandy soil or fill and put heavier or solid objects on them, when they are shaken objects tend to sink to their stable point based on their specific gravity.
In the second video the narrator mentions that the park he is in was reclaimed from Tokyo bay. The water welling up out of the ground is probably bay water that has intruded into the subsoil of the park. With the earthquake it is rising to the surface, allowing heavier soil to sink.
Watching the cracks yawn open and close was very eerie.
The more I get to know people the more I like my dogs.
...and he that has no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one. Luke 22:36
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Quote:
Originally posted by Hardware:
Watching the cracks yawn open and close was very eerie.
The more I get to know people the more I like my dogs.
It is eerie. The citizens seemed to try to take things in stride, but still... it was as if they didn't know exactly what to do.
Reminded me of the scene from War of the Worlds. (remake) When the cracks in the asphalt first appeared, folks started walking up and gathering around... I thought that was mostly just Hollywood theatrics, that folks would keep their distance in situations like that. But, as we saw in those videos, folks went right up the the cracks in the ground and got a closer look.
Not something I'd have done, but it takes all types, I guess.
" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "
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Curiosity. It's what makes us human.
Anyway, yes it really is worse than we know.
Quote:
Fukushima Groundwater Radiation Level Jumps Several Dozen Times In One Week, More Measurement Devices
TEPCO continues to be stuck between a rock and a liquid place. Following recent efforts to stop the spillage of radioactive water into the ocean, the pseudo-nationalized utility is now experiencing the aftermath of radioactive water retention. From Kyodo: "The concentration levels of radioactive iodine and cesium in groundwater near the troubled Nos. 1 and 2 reactors at the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant have increased up to several dozen times in one week, suggesting that toxic water has seeped from nearby reactor turbine buildings or elsewhere, Tokyo Electric Power Co. said Thursday. According to the latest findings, a groundwater sample taken April 6 near the No. 1 reactor turbine building showed radioactive iodine-131 of 72 becquerels per cubic meter, with the concentration level growing to 400 becquerels as of Wednesday. The concentration level of cesium-134 increased from 1.4 becquerels to 53 becquerels." Conventional thought is that this is due to contaminated water used to cool down overheating reactors: "A total of around 60,000 tons of contaminated water is believed to be flooding the basements of the Nos. 1 to 3 reactor turbine buildings as well as trenches connected to them, and the water is hampering work to restore the cooling functions of the reactors lost since the March 11 earthquake and ensuing tsunami." Yet the most troubling news once again comes from the plutonium containing Reactor 3 where the temperature rose suddenly. Not to worry though: "TEPCO officials said the data were likely due to a glitch in a measuring instrument." And with that we have another data reader which indicates unpleasant information being thrown away (this follows the halt of readings from the Drywell radiation counter in Reactor 1 following a reported surge).
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Iodine is not a huge worry in the long term. Iodine 131 has a half life of 8 days. 2 months will reduce its radioactivity to barely perceptible levels. Caesium 134 is more of a worry, half life of 2 years. Of course, earth is the best filter there is. I'd like to know where and how they extracted samples of groundwater.
I had said in another thread that I was concerned about radioactive contamination in the turbine building. I'd hate to be right.
The more I get to know people the more I like my dogs.
...and he that has no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one. Luke 22:36
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W, this is what I know or can reliably surmise from the data:
All fuel rods in all operating reactors (1-3) were without cooling for at least 10 days as were the fuel rods in pond No 4 (staged there "temporarily" for refueling).
Since it took only about 10 hours for the fuel rods at TMI to melt down 25%, it is a virtual certainty that the fuel rods at Fukushima...ALL of them... are destroyed at least that much. Either they (1) lost their cladding and spilled fuel pellets into the bottom of the reactor where the fuel pellets melted or they (2) melted at the tops of the reactors and puddled at the bottom. There is strong evidence that Reactor No 2 is breached, and that recriticality was reached in No. 1. The containment vessel in No 2 is broken.
They have been pouring tons of water per day over the reactors, water which is quite obviously flowing over raw naked uranium fuel (obvious due to the amount and type of radionuclides in the water) and... where HAS that water been going, anyway???
Well, it's pretty damn obvious it's been going into the groundwater.
The turbine buildings and reactor basements of No 5 and 6 have been collecting radioactive water.
Why???
Because the buildings are cracked, and sunk as they are into the groundwater table, they are acting like giant wells and leaking groundwater into the structure. Groundwater which is as contaminated as anything they found in any of the other reactor/ turbine buildings.
Now, as you know, groundwater isn't still. It flows in underground "rivers"; we have had significant problems here in CA (and I would imagine elsewhere) with groundwater contamination which flows in "plumes" from the contaminant source. I will say that I don't know whether the groundwater flows seaward or inland from Fukushima, but it is hubris to pretend to know for sure that it won't be a problem.
It is very difficult to get the news. They are talking about stem cell treatment for the Fukushima workers. Why? Officials are saying that the radiation coming from pond No 4 must have been blown there from a elsewhere. From where? At some point, the site may become SO radiologically hot that it will be impossible maintain the pumps, or even send in robots.Then what? The rods and/ or corium would go white-hot again, and THIS time when it hit the water there would a steam explosion that would blow nuclear material all over kingdom come.
The advice I gave my friend in Tokyo still stands: Keep money with you at all times. IF the wind is blowing from Fukushima, find reasons to spend your spare time out of the city. Plan three or four routes out of the city which do NOT involve buying a ticket. If you see workers packing up and leaving the site, don't go back for anything- just leave.
Quote:
The head of the Atomic Energy Society of Japan, Takashi Sawada, said yesterday (APRIL 14... No shit, Sherlock) that fuel rods in reactors 1 and 3 have melted and settled at the bottom of their containment vessels, confirming fears that the plant suffered a partial meltdown after last month’s huge earthquake and tsunami... Mr Sawada warned the condition of the plant could worsen if another strong quake knocks out power to its cooling systems.
“That would destabilise pressure and temperatures inside the reactors and the situation would become extremely unpredictable again,” he said..
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Hello,
Thank you for this informed summation of the nuclear trouble. I have not seen the information about it collected so effectively or succinctly before.
--Anthony
Assured by friends that the signal-to-noise ratio has improved on this forum, I have disabled web filtering.
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There are a lot of 'ifs' at Fukushima that ALL have to go right for this to end --- at least not worse than it already is. And there is a lot of room for it to get worse.
They have to keep nitrogen going into unit 1 to prevent a hydrogen explosion. If they can't keep nitrogen flooding unit 1, oxygen will come in and explode the unit. As a historical example, it was a series of hydrogen explosions and ONLY hydrogen explosions that took Chernobyl apart, and set the graphite on fire.
They have to be able to keep pumping water into units 1, 2 and 3, and spent fuel pool 4. For that they have to have a continuous supply of fresh water as salt water was evaporating, leaving salt to plug the inlets, outlets and everything in between. Salt water was necessary to keep the reactors from going critical, but not something they could do indefinitely. (It was the government that insisted on using salt water to prevent total meltdown, over the objections of TEPCO officials who were more worried about the equipment and electronics being ruined than about metldown.)
The water itself is thought to not be circulating through the core because the core structure is so damaged there are no longer passageways through and around it, just sagged partial rods and (still) molten blobs at the bottom, some of which are also plugging holes. That means that they have to pump more water faster since heat transfer is inefficient. If they can't keep water pumping, decay heat will build up, causing even more melting, re-criticality, burning through to the water table and - all hell breaks loose.
To keep the water going they have to keep reactors 5 and 6 going for power. Keeping reactors 5 and 6 going is problematic, however, as highly radioactive groundwater is seeping into the turbine area and reactor room of unit 5, and reactor room (or turbine, I forget which) of unit 6.
They have to contain the radioactive water, otherwise they are doing what a steam explosion would do - heavily contaminating the environment - just more slowly. And eventually they have to treat and dispose of it.
And they have to have enough workers on the scene to keep individual exposures low(er) so workers don't die of radiation poisoning in short order. Though it seems they are willing to burn through (so to speak) their workers.
There are two competing clocks - the timetable of human action which is more prone to disaster the longer the clock runs, and the timetable of cooldown which is less prone to disaster the longer the clock runs.
This is the kind of situation where I would have expected Japan to throw its doors wide open to all the manpower, expertise and equipment the world has to offer. Instead they created a barrier of official silence, shut out the world (except late, and in very limited ways), and reacted in a myopic, underpowered, and self-serving way. The ONLY information that is released is information that other people have come to - or will come to - independently. The information that does come out is late, incomplete at best and misleading at worst, and independent observers and scientists are being kept away.
THESE are the people the Japanese are trusting to do the right thing? The safe thing? Are trusting with their lives?
THIS is how the nuclear industry is allowed to operate? Presiding in secret over a catastrophe with global impact?
Anthony, every time I think of Fukushima, I am struck with how little of it seems rational. How much seems to be self-serving, secretive, and above all, completely incapable of grasping the importance of swiftly and expertly bringing the catastrophe to a close.
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Hello,
I think that the priority for any business in this situation is in limiting liability. Often, the route to limiting liability is limiting *perception* of liability by limiting information about problems. Even if this causes more harm in the long run, they hope they can control perceptions in order to protect their interests.
I should mention that the same is true of governments. This exact behavior was prevalent during the Chernobyl incident, with the Soviet Politburo denying the extent of harm in order to protect the reputation of the Soviet state. They even allowed open air parades and celebrations to take place within the radioactive plume, exposing tens of thousands of their own citizens to unnecessary risk rather than admit the extent of the problem.
In Japan, we have double trouble. We have a business looking out for its interests, and a nation looking to preserve its image and honor.
It's akin to the danger of self-serving Capitalism added to the propaganda needs of a self-serving state. (Which is not to say the Japanese government is like the Soviet government, but rather that they have similar desires to preserve their image on the basis of retaining honor on the world stage.)
I wonder if any suicides will result from this, or whether the Japanese have moved past such things.
--Anthony
Assured by friends that the signal-to-noise ratio has improved on this forum, I have disabled web filtering.
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