Religion as an Invention
POSTED BY: AnthonyT
UPDATED: Sunday, August 23, 2026 16:07
VIEWED: 9267
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But, do people "need" to believe?
To me, religion is about control. In explained and propitiated disease, rain, game, fertility, lightening, luck, and other natural forces. It still does in primitive societies, and even in some modern ones. As society grew, it was used to control another force which came into being: the thoughts of many people living together. And in a personal sense it is sometimes used to control the uncontrollable forces within: addiction, and hopelessness. At times it offers hope, but often uses fear.
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Quote:Yes.
Originally posted by SignyM:
But, do people "need" to believe?
Religion, to me, is a worldview, not necessarily a particular belief in a deity. Buddhism and Paganism, or even Star Wars Jedi-ism, are examples of religious belief systems surrounding some universal connection and not a specific deity.
I believe atheists, despite their protests, also have a similar non-specific "religion." I believe this need to feel "connected" and contemplate metaphysical questions is universal amongst humans.
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"You don't need to believe what I believe, just believe in something" - Shepherd Book.
Our beliefs teach us the wisdom we don't yet have, and this protects us against manipulation and predations by others who know more than we do. If not for this, I would have fallen victim as others have to countless mechanisms of death and slavery. I would make bad decisions about how to solve problems, and how to deal with other people. I make choices and have made in the past that I would not have made if I didn't take a leap of faith to believe in something that knew better than I.
That's what a ship is, you know - it's not just a keel and a hull and a deck and sails, that's what a ship needs.
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Quote:
Eloquent as always, Cav, and right on, as I see it.
If you ask me this question once a year from now on, you'll prolly get a different answer each time. Right now, I'm seeing religion as an extremely powerful psychological weapon that has a crippling design flaw in that it disables the wielder as well as his target. At the same time, the weapon is sophisticated enough to exploit this design flaw in bringing the fearful and disabled victims of its power together in large, defensive groups. Its medium of control is fear. When humans find another way to process our deepest fears, religion will no longer be of any use to anyone. Bear in mind: I'm talking only about religion itself, not the phenomena it purports to explain.
While I don’t believe “love, enginuity, charity and other human traits that span the ages” are on a par with religion...”faith” maybe, but religion is a created context to hold faith. I don’t think it’ll ever really go out of style; look at how many “new” religions pop up even now. I think mankind needs something to look to beyond himself in order to live with his fears of the unknown; science provides that for some, religion for others, and there will always be those unable or unwilling to face life without a higher power looking over them. I’m not saying it doesn’t do a whole lot of good in some ways, it definitely does.
I have a dream that, if we could ever get rid of our tendency to be hateful, start wars, persecute others who are “different”, and stop looking to someone else to take care of us, we’d actually evolve. Don’t expect it to happen, at least any time in the foreseeable future, just a dream.
I agree with all Rose said, too, especially “there are few better ways to control the thinking of so many people.” Unfortunately, whatever faith is, I believe religion is utilized for just that purpose more than for any other. When a human being has the power to control faith, it’s pretty hefty, and they have, throughout the ages. And tho’ it hadn’t occurred to me in exactly those terms, I find “It can be used as a shield against just consequences, often very effectively” a very articulate explanation of that aspect of RELIGION (again, not “faith”, which to me is different)
Damn, Rose, you’re on a roll!Quote:
. Okay, I’m prejudiced, since buddhism IS a philosophy, not a religion, and it DOES adapt to each culture. Religions do to, but the tenants, as I see it and you said, have not changed much with time. I don’t think the corollary to meth is that far off; look at the damage the perversion of Islam has done...talk about your armored tank!
Having a philosophy, something that can change and shift with new information, that's one thing. And it can lead people to the same places of goodness that religion can
Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off 
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Frem, I agree wholeheartedly with “some people *need* to believe something to get through the day, particularly in a crisis, and to take that from them seems an act of malice no matter what I, personally, think of it”, and others have mentioned the same. I hope whatever’s happening in your life isn’t too awful and passes soon, I hate to think of you having something serious happening...you’ve had QUITE enough to carry thus far in your life, gawd knows!
Excellent point on the other side, DT:Quote:
I’m afraid I see more of those supposedly “interpreting” the word of some god as a negative rather than a positive, but what you said definitely has merit for some...perhaps many. We usually only hear the BAD about religion, and forget all the good it does. I’m not sure whether I’d rather have people follow some teaching than learn for themselves, but it certainly does help many in that respect, I admit.
teach people the end conclusions of the logic that is being used in that society before they are capable of reaching those conclusions themselves
CTS, put “Just like in Jaynestown, people believe what they NEED to believe”, which I believe is totally valid, together with what some others have said, and the concept is one which I agree with. And yes, sig, I DO think there will always be those who “need” to believe. Man’s greatest fear has always been death; religion provides something to believe in beyond death. Man’s next greatest fear is that which he doesn’t understand; religion provides answers he can accept for those things. It’s a shame that religion (or man) can’t move and change as some of those things are explained, but some need to go with the simpler explanation, and I think always will.
Mmm, CTS, you just gave me the third “need”...the need to feel connected. Mankind doesn’t survive alone, and one of the biggest things we all feel is aloneness. Again, religion fills the gap, creates a commonality with which people can lessen that feeling.
So for me, religion fills some of mankind’s needs which have existed within us since we began. Fear of death, fear of what we don’t understand, assuagement of the feeling of being alone...and I would add DT’s concept of guiding people through the vagarities of society and life.
Lastly, yes, buddhism incorporates a faith, a belief if you will, in the connectedness too. On a huge scale, in that ALL things are connected, not just people. For many it also provides a sop to the fear of death. But it doesn’t provide “teaching” of moral imperatives or societal requirements, nor does it provide explanations for the unknown. Nor guidance per se; there are stories, usually with insight or morals contained within them, but the stories are just told/written; it’s up to each individual to accept or reject them. And it leaves off some specific higher power which judges or takes personal interest in each person’s life. We are left to do that for ourselves, and it requires self-awareness to recognize what’s right and wrong. The whole base of buddhism is self-awareness and compassion; if one can become completely self-aware (nirvana...never attained, but the effort teaches us what we need to grow), one cannot condemn others and one knows innately what is right and wrong. Whether we act on that knowledge or not is up to us, but the more self-aware we become, the more compassionate our choices.
Ahh, DT, but the flaw in your argument is that religion Quote:
How much of that applies to organized religion, as opposed to the manipulation and predation that COMES from religion? I agree with “believe in something”, but looking to humans to determine what that something IS and how it should be followed, believed, acted upon has, to me, caused more harm than good.
teach us the wisdom we don't yet have, and this protects us against manipulation and predations by others who know more than we do.
What a truly marvelous discussion! You’ve restored my faith in the concept of debate being
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I've always felt that religion is important for children. It gives them morality lessons, and a structure for behavior to meet the challenges in this world. Adults don't need religion, except those that really need spiritual help to cope with tragedy.
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Quote:
Originally posted by AnthonyT:
Does it have utility? Was it important at one point in History? Is it still important today? Is it a boon for mankind? Does it have a useful place in the future? Or is it a mere artifact of the past?
The answer to your all your questions comes down to one fundamental issue...does God exist?
H
"Hero. I have come to respect you." "I am forced to agree with Hero here."- Chrisisall, 2009.
"I would rather not ignore your contributions." Niki2, 2010.
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Quote:
Originally posted by Niki2:
Excellent point on the other side, DT:Quote:I’m afraid I see more of those supposedly “interpreting” the word of some god as a negative rather than a positive, but what you said definitely has merit for some...perhaps many. We usually only hear the BAD about religion, and forget all the good it does. I’m not sure whether I’d rather have people follow some teaching than learn for themselves, but it certainly does help many in that respect, I admit.
teach people the end conclusions of the logic that is being used in that society before they are capable of reaching those conclusions themselves
Well said. Usually I would say that it was some particular church that went wrong, rather than a religion itself, but churches also do a lot of positive things. As long as you can leave, I don't see a problem with it.
That's what a ship is, you know - it's not just a keel and a hull and a deck and sails, that's what a ship needs.
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Quote:
Originally posted by Niki2:
Ahh, DT, but the flaw in your argument is that religionQuote:How much of that applies to organized religion, as opposed to the manipulation and predation that COMES from religion? I agree with “believe in something”, but looking to humans to determine what that something IS and how it should be followed, believed, acted upon has, to me, caused more harm than good.
teach us the wisdom we don't yet have, and this protects us against manipulation and predations by others who know more than we do.
I think that having rules based on wisdom of the past is a good defense against threats of the present and future.
It is not the religious nature of our leadership which leads us astray, but perhaps, our atheistic nature of leadership.
"We will be judged not by how we treat our friends, but rather by how we treat our enemies" is just a good rule for leadership. If our so-called Christian presidents spent any time listening to the words of Christ, they might not have done some of the things they did and are still doing.
"Neither borrower nor lender be" is a pretty good one, for a nation, or on a personal level. I'm glad that my grandfather sat me down and taught me theses rules as a child, rather than letting me find them out with a student loan and a mortgage and finding myself a quarter million in debt and then saying "Oh, I see, this is a bad idea, because now I have to work forever just to pay the interest on this infinite debt." Instead, I said "I'm sorry, I can't do that see, because I can't sign any contracts or take out any loans, and so now I'm not in that situation. And I'm glad.
There's a lot of wisdom in the words of prophets, which is why people follow them. If you sat kids down with Jesus, Mohammed, Gautama, Lao Tzu, et al collectively, they'd probably do even better. Certainly it's not going to hurt if your child knows a person versed in the ways of each faith.
I think our typical messages in our society are:
Stay in your seat. Go to the principle's office.
No you cannot have permission
Hey, dude, bong hits
Admitted! Keg Stand!
Okay, you're hired
Mortgage Accepted!
You learned early that adults were evil and abusive, and not to be listened to, and okay, now you're a slave in debt with some bad habits.
That's what a ship is, you know - it's not just a keel and a hull and a deck and sails, that's what a ship needs.
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Quote:
Originally posted by Hero:Quote:
Originally posted by AnthonyT:
Does it have utility? Was it important at one point in History? Is it still important today? Is it a boon for mankind? Does it have a useful place in the future? Or is it a mere artifact of the past?
The answer to your all your questions comes down to one fundamental issue...does God exist?
H
"Hero. I have come to respect you." "I am forced to agree with Hero here."- Chrisisall, 2009.
"I would rather not ignore your contributions." Niki2, 2010.
I pretty much agree with this. As an atheist I believe religion to be a falsehood (though not something sinisterly devised or anything like that), and thus it's hard to view it as a boon to mankind. Perhaps it served a purpose in the past - for most of human history we didn't have a scientific explanation for the universe. Perhaps it acted as a useful 'truth-substitute' for society to build around, and that might explain why it seems to be so ingrained in us. Now I think there has to be a better way though.
It's not personal. It's just war.
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