If Whedon had originally intended Mal to be more dark....
POSTED BY: lightinthebrainpan
UPDATED: Monday, August 9, 2004 10:55
VIEWED: 15790
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I've always wondered, how would Mal have acted differently if FOX hadn't pressured Joss to lighten him up? If he had been as dark as Joss envisioned, what would Mal have done or not done?
Here are some of my speculations on what Mal might be like if he truly left behind forgiveness, faith, and compassion.
1. Mal would have killed Patience, instead of letting her go "run her little moon."
2. Mal would have let Jayne fall out of that airlock.
3. Mal would have taken a little extra time to hunt Niska down while he was still there on his statiion, and taken care of that threat once and for all.
I think Fillion doesn't have as commanding a presence as we have come to expect from spaceship captains (like Picard or Sisko). But his humanity and humor are a very nice and effective contrast to those stereotypes. Fillion pulls off sardonic wit, family loyalty, and survival hardass-ness perfectly. He *does* remind me of Vietnam veterans, except vets tend to be even more laconic than Mal is. But it is a perfect reminder, since Mal is a hardened vet.
Can't Take My Gorram Sky 
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Just thought I'd throw in my two cents
I thought Nathan was perfect for Mal in terms of when The show started (the battle of Serenity Valley) Mal seems even in the trenches as kind of a goof ball. and it dosen't seem to be disputed here that the man has those comedy chops to play the younger freewheeling Mal.
I guess I just like to think of it as while is preformance is based off that goofy sargent, through the time since losing the war to when serenity is formed, there's a whole big chunk a time where there were Mal had to go through probably a lot of hardships to be where he was content on Serenity
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Quote:
Originally posted by canttakesky:
I've always wondered, how would Mal have acted differently if FOX hadn't pressured Joss to lighten him up? If he had been as dark as Joss envisioned, what would Mal have done or not done?
Here are some of my speculations on what Mal might be like if he truly left behind forgiveness, faith, and compassion.
1. Mal would have killed Patience, instead of letting her go "run her little moon."
2. Mal would have let Jayne fall out of that airlock.
3. Mal would have taken a little extra time to hunt Niska down while he was still there on his statiion, and taken care of that threat once and for all.
Forgiveness, faith and compassion are religious virtues, and Mal has no religion. As he tells the Shepherd: "You're welcome on my ship, God ain't."
Instead, Mal's virtues are justice, competence, reason, and a benevolence towards people. These are not unusual virtues among thinking atheists.
Forgiveness is not in Mal's character. What we see, instead, is a man who understands the weakness possible to human character, and tries to make allowances for it. Here is my interpretation of your examples:
1. Mal didn't kill Patience because the immediate danger was past (he had no problem killing her accomplices) and she was no threat to him. He is not a casual killer.
2. Mal probably planned to let Jayne get sucked out of the airlock. He was motivated by a sense of justice. However, Mal doesn't like to kill. He looks for, he wants some reason, some mitigating circumstance to let Jayne live. Jayne is a risk to his crew because he betrayed them for money. Jayne knows what will happen to River and her brother if they are caught, but they mean nothing to him. This is not a happy situation among crew members. But towards the end, Jayne asks Mal not to tell the crew about his deceit - indicating that Jayne does value the crew (and their opinions of him) after all. This is the excuse Mal needs to let him go.
3. Niska deserved to die and Mal would have killed him in a flash if he'd had the chance. But Mal is practical rather than vengeful. His little crew has attacked a skyplex and managed to free him, mainly because of the element of surprise. He doesn't want to stretch his luck and gets the hell out as quickly as he can, even if it means leaving Niska alive. There is no compassion for Niska - he later tells Inara that he's sorry that Niska still lives - it is just a matter of practicality.
I can provide a couple examples of my own.
The first episode that people refer to as "dark" does not seem dark to me. What we see is Mal acting more according to his nature rather than to please the Fox execs:
1. Mal doesn't kid himself about reality, he faces things as they are and deals with them. He is just, but not cruel. He tells Simon "look, I know you didn't mean to hurt my crew by sneaking on to my ship, but see what your actions have done. My crew is in danger because we're harboring fugitives, and we're not in a position to stand Alliance scrutiny. Sooner or later something's going to need to be done about the Fed agent. I know you won't do it. I'll have to get rid of him for you and become a fugitive myself because of this." At this point, Mal probably doesn't intend to kill the Fed. This is not an unreasonable or "dark" attitude. Mal is angry and frustrated.
2. Mal tells Simon that Kaylee is dead when she's not. This might seem like dark humor, but there is some justice there as well. Mal did not like Simon threatening to let Kaylee die, and he gives Simon a couple of uncomfortable minutes in return. His crew apparently see his point and laugh as well.
Quote:
I think Fillion doesn't have as commanding a presence as we have come to expect from spaceship captains (like Picard or Sisko).
All I can say is, thank God. Where do I start? Picard is a frump. Not the man's fault, it is what the Star Trek universe expects. He is captain of the godly starship enterprise of illustrious history, and his declamations suit the
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Quote:
Zoe's "oh yeah. now we can retire" from the movie trailer)
*runs screaming away from spoiler*
Well, my sister's a ship... we had a
complicated childhood
.................
I wear the cheese. It does not wear me.
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Quote:Can anyone think of good examples of his acting prior to Firefly that made Joss choose him? Or was it just a convincing screen test? It can't be on the strength of Saving Private Ryan alone, surely.
Originally posted by lightinthebrainpan:
....why did he decide to cast Nathan Fillion?
I'm not asking if we think he was a good choice: clearly he was. But we have hindsight!
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I think that, whatever Joss might've originally planned for the character, the character as he appeared on TV has altered it. It happens; sometimes you start writing a character and the character him/her/itself gets out of your control. The character you'd planned to turn traiter suddenly becomes a team-player. Your sycophant courtier becomes the angsting philosopher. Maybe it's your subconscious interfering with the writing, but sometimes a story will change itself, regardless of what the writer wants.
This is moreso with TV characters, who're amalgams of what the writer, the actor, and the producers' dictates all bring to the part.
I genuinely don't think this Mal could go dark and gritty 24/7. I mean, yeah, Joss could write it, and Filion could carry it off, but it'd feel wrong. Forced, even. Not while keeping "in character," and Joss is far too skilled a writer to use such an awkward and heavy-handed retcon.
Mal may be in a darker place in the movie, but I'm pretty sure he'll still have that trademark sense of humour. Otherwise, why keep Zoe around as the straight-woman?
-----
We applied the cortical electrodes but were unable to get a neural reaction from either patient.
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"We have hindsight" -- that's the thing! How did Whedon KNOW that Fillion could do what he did with the character of Malcolm Reynolds? I guess that's sort of a general question I have about good directors. How do they sense this stuff? It would be interesting to see Fillion's screen test.
Interesting to compare this Captain with the Captains many of us "grew up" with: "Federation," starfleet... all very much officers and gentlemen. The Prime Directive. Etc. "Serenity" is a much more personal story. As Whedon says, it's all about family. Captains Kirk and Picard were more (though not exclusively) about professional honor, I think. More about a code of behavior in the midst of the unknown. ... I'll have to think more about this, if I ever get to watch the DVD set a second time.
Interesting also to think about the "moral universe" that Mal and his crew find themselves in. Judeo-Christian ideals sort of revolve around the concept of choice: Human beings are designed in such a way that they get to choose whether they do good or evil. Civilization kinda provides an ethical framework; the Alliance, like any centralized government, would provide law and order (at a price). But Mal and company are really "in the black"---it's just them and their consciences. Another thing I find interesting about "Serenity" or any other frontier-type story.
I wonder whether the movie will explore more about what happened after Mal and his regiment were abandoned in Serenity Valley. That would be a key to Mal's character.
I've also wondered whether one of things that has happened just before the movie begins is Inara leaving. Meaning nothing good for Mal's heart or soul. Does he totally lose his sense of right and wrong at that point? Will that be the low point from which all of the rest of the BDM flows?
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Quote:
Originally posted by lightinthebrainpan:
"We have hindsight" -- that's the thing! How did Whedon KNOW that Fillion could do what he did with the character of Malcolm Reynolds?
I was just rewatching the commentary for 'Serenity' last night (Joss & Nathan together)
and Nathan pointed out one of his 'audition scenes' and Joss said that yes, he chose two specific scenes for the Mal auditions because he needed to see if the actor could go easily from the dark place to the humor and still be convincingly dark AND funny.
So I think Joss knew.
In fact I think over all the years casting for BtVS and Ats that Joss has gotten pretty good at knowing who is going to work in what role.
altho admittedly he had to recast Inara.
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kellaina:
As for dark/not-so-dark Mal, whether intentional or not, I've always liked the fact that while there was a darker side to him, he can be a little lighter too. It's what made the character more realistic to me. The darkness is there, just below the surface but it isn't dominating him (although it easily could).
Slightly off-topic question: If he was dark all the time, wouldn't he be, well, Angel?
Actually, I've always thought that Mal and Angel were tremendously alike. They're both very intense men with a rather dry sense of humour that often pops up at odd moments,both of them inspire loyalty in those who work with them, both have integrity and do what they think is the right thing to do, even if no-one else agrees with them. I actually think Mal is darker than Angel, personality-wise, and yes, I'll tell you why. :) Angel is (I can't say "was" yet) working toward a specifically defined goal, and Mal is not. Angel is partially externally motivated by the hope of redemption, and Mal's only motivation, at this point, seems to be just living his life the way he wants to.
Mal's motivations, I suspect, are almost entirely internal, and that gives him an edge in the darkness department, because he is, in many ways, wound much more tightly than Angel. Angel at least lets things out occasionally -- not just venting, but actually expressing the "what ifs" -- "What if I'm never really going to be able to make up for all the stuff I did?" type things. Mal is much more self-contained, to my way of thinking. Possibly that's from his military days -- you're not really supposed to unburden yourself and share your doubts those under your command. Psychologically speaking, "surviving" is not much of a goal. Mal often doesn't seem to be very interested in "living", and I don't mean that he's suicidal, just that Mal doesn't take time to stop and smell the space roses. Don't get me wrong, Mal's my favourite and I wouldn't have it any other way, but he doesn't have a lot of hope in him. It's one of the reasons I like him -- he's very interesting like that.
The thing is that we all got "brooding Angel" in our heads during his Sunnydale days, but he generally wasn't that dude once he moved to LA. Angel on the series was a much different person than he was on Buffy -- I couldn't stand Angel until he moved, and now I have to say I prefer Angel the show to Buffy. But when he moved, Angel started to realize there were things about life he could enjoy while working to a) help the helpless and a1) get all redeemed and stuff.
He didn't go all Pollyanna by any means,but Angel on Angel was a lot more relaxed, and less perpetually intense. He had his slightly to
really dark moments, of course, but I am willing to bet $4.57 that there will come a time when Mal will fire his crew, then lock a bunch of lawyers in a room and let vampires eat em all up(metaphorically speaking, of course). That was one of my very favourite Angel seasons,the Buffy version of it was most of season 6,and I would looooove to see the Firefly version of it. I like when Whedon explores the darkness, especially with characters that are already pretty dark.
"You two are the two who are the two! I'm the other one!"
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Quote:
Originally posted by Cybersnark:
I genuinely don't think this Mal could go dark and gritty 24/7. I mean, yeah, Joss could write it, and Filion could carry it off, but it'd feel wrong. Forced, even. Not while keeping "in character," and Joss is far too skilled a writer to use such an awkward and heavy-handed retcon.
I disagree. I think Mal going to a very bad place is a natural course of action, perhaps inevitable. As I just said a minute ago, both Buffy and Angel hit very dark, very nasty pits in their lives, and I don't think either of those felt forced. To me, it felt like they were hitting bottom because they had no control over their own lives, which is pretty natural. And I don't think Mal's hit bottom yet.
As far as such a move not being "in character", I can see where right now it might not be in character for Mal, but in the future, who knows?
During, say, season three of Buffy, would you
ever have predicted that Wesley would one day keep a chick locked in the closet of a boat for an entire summer while simultaneously sleeping with someone like Lilah? (which was awesome, by the way) Wes is my favourite example of how gradually Whedon can do character development and make it seem just very organic and logical as a progression.
I think Mal's in for a rough ride, the poor guy.
"You two are the two who are the two! I'm the other one!"
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