Hearings on "Domestic Muslim Terrorism"
POSTED BY: Niki2
UPDATED: Monday, March 21, 2011 20:42
VIEWED: 9998
PAGE 6 of 11
Oh, your comment is VERY relevant to domestic terrorism. And you make the perfect point that the Republican party is actively trying to INCITE domestic terrorism. Why else would they be so hell-bent on putting the American middle class into poverty, thus giving them little or nothing to live for, and making the choice to become a suicide bomber that much easier for those people?
What's really funny is that the vast majority of domestic terrorism comes from the christian right, not from those wicked muslims. You'll never hear Peter King denounce those people, and you'll never hear Rappy denounce them, either. As has been said before, one man's terrorist is another man's "freedom fighter". Ask Peter King about his IRA buddies sometime, and how much money he helped funnel to them, and how many weapons that bought the IRA from places like Libya.
"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill
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Quote:
Originally posted by Niki2:Quote:
King is grandstandingQuote:What they said.
You can make a similar list with the label "Christian" or "Jew." A list doesn't prove the ideology turns people into terrorists, anymore than being born American turns you into a brown-people-bombing soldier.Quote:MOST eloquent, CTS, and something those in favor of this witch-hunt seem to be incapable of grasping. Only I would say “Pity the easy way HAS only made and IS only making things worse”.
Terrorists come in ALL colors and religions. The root of terrorism is more complex than any single ideology. It involves desperation and hopelessness and economic and political powerlessness. It involves understanding history and the many tentacles of imperialism and meddling and victimizing and exploiting.
It is so much easier to just blame it on one ideology. Pity the easy way is not the accurate way. Pity the easy way would only make things worse.
Bill Maher, Christopher Hitchens and I , as well as a hell of a lot of others, disagree.
Quote:
What's really funny is that the vast majority of domestic terrorism comes from the christian right
And Kwickie, you show where a vast majority of the violence comes from christian right, or admit you're flat out lying.
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Quote:If it is indeed NO to the second, then call it by some other name than "Muslim." Call them "pseudo-Muslims" or "Perverted Quran Fundamentalists." If you don't think this violence is generalizable to the ideology of all Muslims, then calling the violence "Muslim" is inaccurate and perjorative.
Originally posted by AURaptor:Quote:
Originally posted by canttakesky:Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
No. Because they ARE Muslims, and to deny that would be folly.
On one hand, you say you realize this violence does not generalize to all Muslims. On the other hand, you insist on generalizing this violence to the ideology of all Muslims.
Yes to the first part, NO to the second.
Quote:You know I meant only you and Kane are arguing on King's side here on RWED. So far.
So, the King hearings completely skipped your memory?
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Quote:
What's really funny is that the vast majority of domestic terrorism comes from the christian right
I'm suppressing the reactive instinct to call bullshit. Instead I'll ask for details, examples and the like. You're statement's kinda hard to believe, but might make more sense with an explanation.
If we're speaking in terms of individuals self motivated to commit terrorism, I don't believe religion is relevant. If a guy happens to be Muslim and kills someone(s), I wouldn't assume his religion to be a factor. If a group of Muslims kills people, I'd be a mite suspicious, but wouldn't assume to know their motivations. If a Muslim affiliated with or following radical violent Muslims commits terrorism, it's not an illogical conclusion to jump to, but that might not be correct either.
Al Qeada, Hezbollah, these are religious groups than commit terrorism. Westboro Babtist, while douchebags, are not terrorist. Could you provide examples of 'Christian right' terrorist organizations or groups that 'incite' terror and how?
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Quote:When members of the Christian Right do violence, they call it "war against terrorism." When Muslims do violence, they call it "terrorism."
Originally posted by AURaptor:
And Kwickie, you show where a vast majority of the violence comes from christian right, or admit you're flat out lying.
True, the hawkish part of the Christian Right usually gets other people to do the killing for them, but they pay good money for the killings and morally support the violence so they must share culpability.
Rough estimates:
1. Civilian deaths attributed "Muslim" terrorists:
Israelis dead because of terrorist suicide bombings: 540
(wikipedia)
American civilian deaths attributed to 9/11 terrorism: 3,000
(common knowledge)
2. Civilian deaths attributed to government action paid for and morally supported by the "Christian Right":
Palestinian civilian deaths in 2nd Intifada: 2,200
(wikipedia)
Afghan civilian deaths since the War against Terror: 6,500 (conflictmonitors.org)
Pakistani civilian deaths since the War against Terror: 720 (conflictmonitors.org)
Iraqi civilian deaths since the War against Terror attributed to Coalition Forces : 11,500
( http://www.plosmedicine.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pme
d.1000415)
This last source also has roughly 68,400 Iraqi civilian deaths whose killers are classified as "Unknown." Some (don't know how much) of that is suicide bombings. I didn't count these because the Iraqis killing other civilian Iraqis is not a "Muslim v. Christian Right/Jew" conflict, but one of political insurrection.
The source did say "The highest average number of civilians killed per event in which a civilian died were in Unknown perpetrator suicide bombings targeting civilians (19 per lethal event) and Coalition aerial bombings (17 per lethal event)."
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Quote:
Originally posted by canttakesky:Quote:When members of the Christian Right do violence, they call it "war against terrorism." When Muslims do violence, they call it "terrorism."
Originally posted by AURaptor:
And Kwickie, you show where a vast majority of the violence comes from christian right, or admit you're flat out lying.
True, the hawkish part of the Christian Right usually gets other people to do the killing for them, but they pay good money for the killings and morally support the violence so they must share culpability.
Rough estimates:
1. Civilian deaths attributed "Muslim" terrorists:
Israelis dead because of terrorist suicide bombings: 540
(wikipedia)
American civilian deaths attributed to 9/11 terrorism: 3,000
(common knowledge)
2. Civilian deaths attributed to government action paid for and morally supported by the "Christian Right":
Palestinian civilian deaths in 2nd Intifada: 2,200
(wikipedia)
Afghan civilian deaths since the War against Terror: 6,500 (conflictmonitors.org)
Pakistani civilian deaths since the War against Terror: 720 (conflictmonitors.org)
Iraqi civilian deaths since the War against Terror attributed to Coalition Forces : 11,500
( http://www.plosmedicine.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pme
d.1000415)
This last source also has roughly 68,400 Iraqi civilian deaths whose killers are classified as "Unknown." Some (don't know how much) of that is suicide bombings. I didn't count these because the Iraqis killing other civilian Iraqis is not a "Muslim v. Christian Right/Jew" conflict, but one of political insurrection.
The source did say "The highest average number of civilians killed per event in which a civilian died were in Unknown perpetrator suicide bombings targeting civilians (19 per lethal event) and Coalition aerial bombings (17 per lethal event)."
LOL. strawman strawman I called it. You cannot be serious? This board has gone to hell.
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Quote:Hey, good for you! You rock.
Originally posted by TheHappyTrader:
I'm suppressing the reactive instinct to call bullshit. Instead I'll ask for details, examples and the like.
Quote:See my previous post.
Could you provide examples of 'Christian right' terrorist organizations or groups that 'incite' terror and how?
When the Christian Right supports violence, they call it "govt" violence not "terrorist" violence. Sometimes the violence is overtly religious, like supporting Israeli violence against Palestinian civilians simply because they are Jewish and are the chosen people of God.
When domestic terrorists like McVeigh or Rudolph or KKK kill people, people say they are not really a Christian, or they killed IN SPITE of being Christian.
When Muslim terrorists kill people, people refuse to accept that they are not really Muslim, or they say they killed BECAUSE of being Muslim.
There is a double standard, see?
I agree with you that religion should not be an issue. So neither Islam or Judaism or Christianity should be brought into it.
But if one is going to bring one as a focal point, I don't mind throwing out examples of violence in other religions, just to show how offensive and uncomfortable it is when it is YOUR religion.
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Right-wing Christian terrorist:
"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
Right-wing Christian terrorist:
"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill
Funny and true. I cringe whenever a Pol says the word god. Mr. Bush was the worst.
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CTS, thanks for examples, but you claim they are funded and supported by the 'Christian Right' and carried out by our military, or blackwater and the like I suppose. This is kind of apples and oranges.
If Al Qeada didn't kill or terrorize, but hired mercenaries or a front to do it for them, it'd be closer to a comparison. Perhaps a better comparison the the so called 'Christian' equivalent would be the Saudi's that send these terrorist money to do what they were already going to do. I'm sorry, but I don't think you're argument concerning 'Christian' terrorist tracks, but I did ask for examples of 'Christian incited' terror.
Still I think your examples are political and economic in essence, not religious. 'Course, I suspect AL Qeada is only religious when it suits their agenda anyway.
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