Hearings on "Domestic Muslim Terrorism"
POSTED BY: Niki2
UPDATED: Monday, March 21, 2011 20:42
VIEWED: 9998
PAGE 2 of 11
Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
there are 'some' Muslims who commit violence ... this group ...
Here is the problem. Going from "some Muslims" to "this group."
All of those you listed had 2 legs. Should we generalize that all 2 legged creatures pose a threat? That's silly. Chickens obviously don't pose a terrorist threat.
So let's narrow the group to 2 legged humans. All 6 billion of us, minus Frem and well a few others. All 2 legged humans pose a terrorist threat? No. Still too broad.
Let's narrow the group to 2 legged Muslim humans. All 1.6 billion of them. All 1.6 billion Muslims pose a terrorist threat? 1 in every 4 human beings on earth? No. Still too broad.
How about 2 legged extremist Muslim humans? A few thousand of them perhaps? Out of 1.6 billion Muslims? Doesn't this sound more reasonable?
The problem is people want to indulge in religious bigotry. Group all 1.6 billion Muslims into ONE group. Have 6 religious violent extremists somehow representing 1.6 billion of their fellow Muslims. That speech Cameron gave was about religious bigotry. This is more of the same.
What if someone wanted to say the Westboro Baptist Church, all 6 members, represented the evil and hateful threats of all 2.1 billion Christians on earth? All Christians are suspect because WBC is Christian? Does that make sense, to not be able or be willing to distinguish bad Christians from nicer ones?
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
You're making this far more complicated than it really is.
Don't get stuck on stupid.
I made it abundantly clear as to who " this group " contains. Those who scream "Allah Akbar! " or to that effect, while attempting to take innocent life, and those who sympathize with them.
If a Daisy Cutter happened to accidentally drop on the Westboro Cult, wiping out the entire Phelps clan, I'd feel bad we no longer can have use of that bomb, but that's about it. And as evil as these nuts are, they've yet to actually physically attack anyone. Or promote the acts of killing anyone.
Comparisons between the Westboro cultists and world wide Islamic fanaticisms, simply don't merit serious consideration.
* Should have posted this here, first...but better late than never.
And while Rep Ellison claims that these terrorists use political issues, not religious, as their motivation, he ignores the fact that they ALWAYS scream out 'ALlah Akbar!' , while committing their attacks.
Though they're not religious. Hmmm..
And the nice quote - Whoever destroys a single life is as guilty as though he had destroyed the entire world; and whoever rescues a single life earns as much merit as though he had rescued the entire world.- Doesn't originate from the Qu'ran. It's from the Talmud, which was written prior to Mohammad getting freaky with his 8 yr old bride.
NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Hmmm...I see you duplicated your Maher video here--where it belonged in the first place. Raptor. Why you put it over there, too, would be strange, except that I think it was yet another effort to steer the conversation off topic. Whatever. On this:
Riona:Quote:
They have. They are. They do every day, we just don’t hear about it. I posted some stuff on it a long time ago, when we were involved in the same bullshit we are now. VERY famous, respected, authority figures in the Muslim community have denounced it---hell, I heard last night that the majority of Muslim terrorists have been TURNED IN by other Muslims...they can’t go much further than that! So yes, they’re doing it...if you want I’ll look it up again...the problem isn’t that they’re not denouncing it, it’s that the MSM doesn’t COVER them doing so.
I would love to hear from more moderate/"normal" Muslims who stand up and denounce terrorism and stand up for their "normal"/moderate Muslim friends and comrades.
And I agree with Mike about there being little expectation of any of those involved in the anti-choice debate denouncing terrorism by people of THEIR beliefs. Or how about the consistent request for Republicans to denounce theirs who have been spewing violent rhetoric for so long? When I see some of THAT, I’ll look for MORE denunciation of Muslim terrorism than I see now.
Oops, I see CTS did my work for me about denunciations. Much thanx CTS, you just saved me a bunch of time.
Gawd Raptor:Quote:
First off, who’s ignoring it??? You keep saying that, but it can only be pure self-delusion to think it’s being IGNORED! Secondly, anti-choice terrorists have committed THEIR acts “in the name of their God”, yet you’re quite happy to ignore that part. In response to your list, how about these:
to ignore the fact that there are 'some' Muslims who commit violence - IN THE NAME OF THEIR GOD, and that this group isn't a threat... is an act of pure self delusion.
We all know about George Tiller, the Wichita doctor, killed INSIDE the lobby of his Wichita church. Reformation Lutheran Church became a crime scene; fundamentalist terrorism.Quote:
Wikipedia
Army of God (AOG) is a Christian terrorist anti-abortion organization that sanctions the use of force to combat abortion in the United States.
--In 1982, three men associated with the organization held Hector Zevallos, an abortion doctor, and his wife, Rosalee Jean, hostage. The "East Coast division" of the AOG claimed responsibility when three men, including Michael Bray, planted bombs at seven abortion clinics in Maryland, Virginia, and Washington D.C. in 1985.
--The AOG claimed responsibility for Eric Robert Rudolph's 1997 shrapnel bombing of abortion clinics in Atlanta and Birmingham as well as an Atlanta lesbian bar.
--Clayton Waagner, claiming to act on the part of the "Virginia Dare Chapter" of the AOG, mailed over 500 letters containing white powder to 280 abortion providers in 2001. The letters claimed that the powder was anthrax; though it was not identified as such, the tactic took advantage of the public's fear of biological warfare after the recent real anthrax attacks.
--The group is also associated with a number of assassinations of abortion providers. Some of these assassins, such as Shelley Shannon, claimed association with the AOG.Quote:
Paul Hill, executed for the shotgun slayings of an abortion doctor and his bodyguard in Pensacola, says he's at peace with himself and would probably kill again. Hill, a one-time Presbyterian minister, has said God led him to shoot Dr. John Britton, 69, and his driver, James Barrett, 74, as they arrived at a Pensacola abortion clinic in July 1994. ''If I were put in similar circumstances, I believe I would act similarly,'' Hill said in a letter to The Herald from his Florida State Prison cell.
“You will not be afraid of the terror by night, or of the arrow that
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
By the way, Quote:
http://academic.udayton.edu/race/06hrights/WaronTerrorism/terrorism01.
FBI statistics indicate that most acts of domestic terrorism are not committed by Muslim or Arab groups. Indeed, from 1984 to 1998, 95 percent of the terrorist incidents in the United States were attributed to domestic groups. In the three years after the Oklahoma City bombing, 1996 to 1998, almost 70 percent of all potential terrorist events were attributed to domestic sources, and the figure climbs to 96 percent if we discount one series of intercepted letter bombs in 1997. More specifically, in 1993, for example, there were two bombings by an extreme right-wing group in Tacoma, Washington, and nine fire bombings by an animal rights group, the Animal Liberation Front, in Chicago, Illinois. In 1994, there were no incidents of terrorism at all. Indeed, when AEDPA was passed in 1996, the looming threat was extreme right-wing domestic groups, particularly militias.
htm
I should have mentioned previouslyQuote:
Jared Lee Loughner
Animal Liberation Front (ALF) The group is listed by the U.S. Department of Homeland Security as a domestic terrorist organization.
Aryan Nations (AN) is a white nationalist neo-Nazi organization founded in the 1970s by Richard Girnt Butler as an arm of the Christian Identity group known as the Church of Jesus Christ-Christian. The Aryan Nations has been called a "terrorist threat" by the FBI,[5] and the RAND Corporation has called it the "first truly nationwide terrorist network" in the USA.
Black Liberation Party, a splinter group made up of the more radical members of the Black Panther Party, the Black Liberation Army (BLA) sought to overthrow the US government in the name of racial separatism and Marxist ideals. The Fraternal Order of Police blames the BLA for the murders of 13 police officers. According to a Justice Department report on BLA activity, the group was suspected of involvement in over 60 incidents of violence between 1970 and 1980.
The Earth Liberation Front has been classified as the top "domestic terror" threat in the United States by the Federal Bureau of Investigation since March 2001.
JDL: The Jewish Defense League: FBI statistics show that, from 1980 to 1985, 15 terrorist attacks were attempted in the U.S. by JDL members.
KKK: From reconstruction at the end of the civil war to the end of the civil rights movement, the Ku Klux Klan (KKK) used threats, violence, arson, and murder to further its white-supremacist, anti-Communist, anti-semitic and anti-Catholic agenda. Domestic terrorists with agendas similar to the KKK include neo-Nazis and white power skinheads.
The May 19 Coalition (also variously referred to as the May 19 Communist Coalition, May 19 Communist Organization, and various alternatives of M19CO), was a US-based, self-described revolutionary organization formed by members of the Weather Underground Organization. The role of the mass movement (i.e., above ground Prairie Fire Collective) would include support for, and encouragement of, armed action.
The Order, also known as the Brüder Schweigen or Silent Brotherhood, was an organization active in the United States between 1983 and 1984. The Order, a white nationalist revolutionary group, is probably best known for the 1984 murder of radio talk show host Alan Berg.
The Phineas Priesthood (Phineas Priests) is a Christian Identity movement that opposes interracial intercourse, the mixing of races, homosexuality, and abortion. Members of the Priesthood are often called terrorists for, among other things, planning to blow up FBI buildings, abortion clinic bombings, and bank robberies.
The Symbionese Liberation Army (SLA) was an American self-styled, far left "urban guerrilla warfare group" that considered itself a revolutionary vanguard army. The group committed bank robberies, two murders, and other acts of violence between 1973 and 1975. Among their most notorious acts
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Niki -
By even attempting to equate the closing down of a summer library program or 1 or two anti aborto zealots to the world wide Islamic jihadists, you're ignoring the problem.
Which I find pathetic and sad.
Maher's explanation, had you bothered to WATCH the video, says it all.
NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Now that wasn't even a halfway decent try.Quote:
...especially given all the various acts of violence, bombings, murder, etc. I bothered to list, AND that the thread is about DOMESTIC Muslim terrorism. Your argument, given the issue at hand, is apples to oranges, and you even substituted "plastic" apples and "international" oranges...
By even totally ignoring the violent murderous acts committed by domestic non-Muslim terrorists in order to pretend I'm equatiung the closing down of a summer library program or "1 or two" anti aborto zealots to the world wide Islamic jihadists, you're twisting the problem.
You can't even debate a valid point decently. So sad; pathetic even. It's not worth responding to your measly attempts to manipulate the situation. So I won't further.
Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off 
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Not only have I debated the issue, and overwhelmingly destroyed your nonsensical position, others, like Bill Maher , have put it into easy to understand language, that most non-pot smoking elderly Left wingers can understand.
NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:
Salt Lake City shooter of 5 is an immigrant - Muslim
...What? Look, I live in Salt Lake City, so no. The Trolley Square shooter was a Bosnian immigrant. And a seriously disturbed kid. He's really more comparable to Loughner. He was Muslim, but even the FBI ruled out terrorism and jihad in his actions.
http://www.deseretnews.com/article/660197676/Cannon-takes-back-Allah-q
uote.html
I saw the video as it played on my local news, and he never shouted Allah Ackbar, that was something John Gibson and Chris Cannon claimed, but they were incorrect.
I've only heard of the Shoe box bomber, underwear bomber, and Ft. Hood Shooter, so I'm going to have to similarly be suspicious of your other listed Muslims. Sorry AURaptor. You shouldn't make assumptions about all immigrants like that. Getting basic facts wrong, even if they're obscure, makes it look like you might be wrong on other stuff too. Vet your information.
My Muslim friend denounces jihad, especially considering jihadists and Saddam Hussein chased her family out of Iraq. So there's at least one for you.
She's a real sweet girl, very into anime if you can believe it. When she heard about the U.S. planning to go to war in Iraq, she recruited a bunch of us to make origami cranes, so that she could wish for her family's safety.
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Not saying Muslim terrorism is more dangerous than any other (though perhaps a mite more common), but it seems your stats all happen before 9/11. Islamic terror is newer (to us anyway) than most of those.
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Byte, thanks for correcting that.
Niki makes good points about domestic terroristic acts committed by people who aren't Muslim, extremism can happen anywhere and can be really scary.
But Happy makes a good point too in that terrorism related to Jihad is a newer thing for us in the US, so its something that is current on people's minds. It sounds like the Salt Lake incident belongs in the category of Jared Lomer, an isolated incident committed by an individual who wasn't in any whacky organizations and was clearly not thinking right. Even though the results can be the same, I see those types of incidents as different than incidents perpetrated by members of a group/organization.
"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya
NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME