Top Secret video of WTC explosive controlled demolition on 9/11
POSTED BY: piratenews
UPDATED: Monday, March 14, 2011 03:46
VIEWED: 11704
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Quote:
Originally posted by RionaEire:
I do agree that the CIA/NSA/whomever probably had more foreknowledge about this than they let on because they didn't want to admit that they _could have done something about it but chose not to, I suspect that what they knew must have been not convincing enough to follow, or someone got lazy. But I don't think the American government caused 9/11 or that they encouraged it to happen. As for the buildings and how they fell, maybe they were built crappily and weren't built to code or something, someone cutting corners on construction etc. it wouldn't be the first time.
I know this sounds morbid but if it was going to happen and there was no way of stopping it, then its probably best that the buildings fell into themselves instead of falling over and hitting other buildings. Obviously I wish the whole thing had never happened. Obviously everyone has the right to believe what they choose, and I'm not trying to say that no one has that right, I was just shocked that so many people are going for this.
"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya
I must say that if it had just been the tops that fell down through the building maybe ripping 10 or so floors beneath the holes, along in its fall and then have vented what was falling out over the sides i would probably have more trust in the official story, as it is right now with what i have read, it just seems like there would have been to much supposed unharmed building between the holes and the ground, especially one of the towers did not have mutch more above the hole, weighted enough to tear it all down, i must say that atleast something do not add upp, i mean have you seen the conspiracy theory programme how trustfull thatis might be debatable, but in the particular episode about the pentagon it also mentions the woman April Ballop i think her name was, she is also mentioned in one of the other links, she was one of the surivers, apparently she walked out of the hole the supposed plane should have made, but she mentioned she did not see any seats, baggage, pieces of wings or tails or the engines.
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Quote:Good gravy, why shouldn't my standards be higher? This is troll country in all but name. I have a higher standard for your behavior because you live up to it most of the time. And you're an anarchist, you're one of us--you gotta represent.
Originally posted by canttakesky:Quote:I only throw back at them what they threw at me first, HK. Why do you always call me on my insults, but you ignore theirs (which again, they threw at me first)? That's curious, isn't it? It might appear like you like to pick on me, HK. Why is your standard for my behavior so much higher than that for others, HK?
Originally posted by HKCavalier:
CTS, you have a terrible habit of acting like you're the only reasonable person in the room.
"I only throw back at them what they threw at me first?" Are we in grade school all of a sudden? Since when does "They started it" fly? But I should understand--oh, well, in that case, be as big a jackass as you can, by all means! You got some heavy competition around here!
And you suggesting that I'm picking on you when you wade into the deep end of every flamewar this forum seems to produce is kinda ironic, don'tcha think? Really? I'm the one that's crossing your line here? I criticized a post of yours maybe six months ago previous to this one sentence of critical feedback--is that my gig? Every six months I really stick it to ol' CTS, haha! Yeah, I'm a bad man?
Seriously though, I wasn't talking about anyone but you. I was specifically not comparing you to anyone but you. I said you act as if you're the only reasonable person in the room and it mars your argument. That's just what I think. And I see it as a habit of yours. That's also just what I think. YMMV. I strongly believe that if I'm to argue with another person, I must presume that the other person is susceptible to reasonable argument because they are themselves reasonable enough to justify my engaging with them. Other words: I don't talk to people I think I'm better than. It always leads to trouble, and the results are never flattering. To anyone. Consider it feedback from a friend, 'cause that's all it is.
Quote:Here's the thing: I don't trust the motives of a lot of truthers I've heard from. Motives are very important to me. I have no pretensions of being a scientist, so I'm free to value emotions and intentions. And I find most truthers untrustworthy in these areas.
Surely y'all have seen enough detective shows to understand this?
All this protestation: "We're just asking questions!!11!!" No, you're not. I just want a truther to have the honesty and the self-awareness to admit, at least among us folks, that she's not "just asking questions." It's embarrassing. I'm not saying it's impossible to be "just asking questions." I'm saying that folk who are "just asking questions" go about it in a very different way than a lot of the truthers I've seen.
I don't like being lied to--even if it's for a good cause. Okay, "lying" is prolly too loaded--how about manipulated? "We're just asking questions" is a political maneuver. It's rhetoric intended to produce a desired result. Bottom line: it's not the truth. Not by a long shot.
From where I sit, it would take hordes of magic ninjas to plant all the bombs necessary to pull off what you suggest. And I still see absolutely no reason for Dr. Evil to go to the extraordinary trouble to do so. The P/L just doesn't add up. If you're gonna plan to bring down the WTC you have to expect MASSIVE CASUALTIES. You can't parse it to the point where all these bombs are gonna save "X" number of lives.
How could the magic ninjas ever have known that they would successfully bring it down directly into its own footprint? Two jet liners full to the gills with jet fuel fly into the towers (unless, of course, you dispute even that) and your magic bombs are going to perfectly account for every variable and bring those buildings straight down, because the magic ninjas know exactly what floors the planes
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Quote:
Originally posted by RionaEire:
Okay, let me get this straight. So I know PN believes that 9/11 was an inside job, that's not news. But DreamTrove and CTS believe it too? Give me a straight answer here people. You guys actually believe this whole thing? I guess I'm shocked and it might set the tone for how seriously I take you guys in future about other topics. I mean sure you have the right to believe what you choose, but ... .... ....??????
.... ?????? I think for once I'm speechless here.
I'm not trying to be mean, I like you guys and all but .... seriously?
Yes, by all means DO NOT take them TOO seriously - it's a forum after all - but do keep an open mind and don't be spooked. Your posts are great and it's good having them.
Scifi movie music + Firefly dialogue clips, 24 hours a day - http://www.scifiradio.com
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Quote:
Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
Here, next best thing, and Michael wouldn't have any objection to me swiping it for this use...Quote:
OKC Bombing: Forensic Evidence
>snip<
Yet somehow the EBES report mentions the floor of the Murrah building having saddles, but omits the fact that it did not have caps to prevent the floor panels from moving upwards. Totally acceptable in a building constructed in the 70's. This allowed the floors to blast load. The return with the added momentum sheared the stirrups from the columns and fascia. This allowed the floors in radial proximity to the blast to deflect downward, which in turn induced lateral movement to the columns and fascia, leading to their failure.
The more I get to know people the more I like my dogs.
...and he that has no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one. Luke 22:36
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Quote:OK, ok. Fair enough. I stand corrected.
Originally posted by HKCavalier:
And you're an anarchist, you're one of us--you gotta represent.
Quote:Fair enough again. Thank you for explaining this.
Consider it feedback from a friend, 'cause that's all it is.
So you want the truth on why I am a truther? Maybe my truth doesn't meet your standard of self-awareness, but I'll attempt it.
The govt lies to us all the time. This time, this lie is so obvious and the casualties so great, that I refuse to sit back and let the lie go on as if it were the truth. I was willing to let OK City go and not make a big deal of it. But this one, no. Not anymore.
Why am I so sure the official story is a lie? Call it intuition of too much suspiciously lucky circumstances, call it the laws of physics, call it too many unanswered questions that would have been routinely answered in a normal arson or murder investigation. I don't know. It is as clear as day to me that the govt covered up whatever the truth is. It is like catching a kid at a lie. There are too many things in the story that don't make sense.
Now you say, there are too many things in MY story that don't make sense. Except I don't have a story. All I have is a possible story which doesn't make sense. But mine not making sense doesn't automatically validate the official one, see? They could both be wrong, couldn't they?
Quote:I don't know how they did it. Maybe it took hordes of magic ninjas. Maybe it took only a handful of super magic ninjas and super magic invisible explosives. Whatever. But not knowing HOW doesn't automatically negate the WHAT.
From where I sit, it would take hordes of magic ninjas to plant all the bombs necessary to pull off what you suggest.
Quote:The official Magic Ninja® is called Al-Qaeda, and we are spending billions of taxpayer dollars hunting them down.
They are the ultimate scapegoat for why our world is as effed up as she is. I declare open season on magic ninjas then! Let's get 'em!
For my money, I believe we are hunting down the wrong magic ninjas.
Don't forget, the official story is a conspiracy theory too. It is not a matter of one conspiracy theory vs no conspiracy. It is a matter of which conspiracy you prefer to believe. Everyone has his preferred magic ninjas for explaining the 9/11 tragedy.
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I don't buy it, Hardware - and yanno, it seems really silly to me that folks are arguing that lighter damage from a non-optimal source (plane crash, truckbomb) so easily takes down a concrete and steel building, WHILE also arguing that internally placed charges in optimal locations would require so MUCH more effort and explosive, on the face of it that makes no sense.
Take a firecracker, put it on your open palm, set it off - maybe burn your hand, right ?
Same firecracker, close your fist around it, then set it off - your girlfriend is gonna be opening your ketchup bottles for the rest of your life, as the man said...
Besides which, the EBES points out quite explicitly that the test structure was radically inferior to the Murrah builing, and their equivalent of the truck bomb did all of about jack shit to it.
HKCav makes a good point about intentions and motivations though - mine do not revolve around technical details or stuff we're unlikely to ever have enough evidence to properly make a case for, so much as they do the social and political implications of the very people we give so much money and power to supposedly protect us, aiding and abetting, or in extreme cases even creating, threats against us, all the while savaging our freedoms and ability to enjoy them.
I mean, if you had a security service for a property that had security problems, and you found out that your security folks had several times either done the robbing themselves, or helped the badguys carry the loot out (Church Committee, Pike Committee, COINTELPRO), and after promising to never, ever do it again, had then held the door open for some more (CARNIVORE/OMNIVORE) (1), and then promised to never ever do it again, and then had not only helped someone raid it, but helped them set fire to it besides! (WTC 1993, Emad Salem)
And they promised to never ever do it again...
And of course it goes on and on (Ft Dix Six, Sears Tower, Bridge Plot, etc) and every time you check, they've not only not protected your interests, but actively helped the bad guys, and every time they snicker up their sleeve and promise to never do it again...
And then the place gets looted clean AND blown up (sept 11) in a fairly suspicious fashion, and they're not only pointing fingers before the dust even settles, they claim really loudly and melodramatically that they had nothing to do it with it, and were just caught blindsided...
Would YOU buy that ?
More to the point, why the fuck are these guys still on your payroll ?
Which is more where my interest in this comes in, especially in light of their so-called "protection" being completely USELESS, and an apallingly long history of them BEING the primary source of threat.
(1) Some time ago, the FBI went on a little field trip to the Soviet Union, and being the facist bastards that they are, were especially impressed by the Soviet SORM-II system operated by the GRU, so when they got back they started working on their own version called CARNIVORE.
Congress got wind of this and appalled by their lack of respect for civil rights and complete violation of their charter, issued THREE SEPERATE congressional directives - one to forbid them funding to build it, or to use existing funding to do so, a second to forbid them from building it even IF they managed to procure funding in another fashion, and a third forbidding them to ever use it on american citizens for any reason whatsoever.
The FBI, of course, ignored them, went right ahead and did it, and right up to the retroactive "legalization" of such bullshit via the Patriot Act, were in fact operating in violation of their charter, making them a "Rogue" organization and in complete violation of both their charter and the law.
In light of such behavior, is it really beyond the pale that they, and other agencies with an even worse history of abuses would turn a blind eye if they thought it would benefit them, or even help it along, given a FIFTY YEAR history of doing exactly that ?
-Frem
I do not serve the Blind God.
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Quote:
Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
I don't buy it, Hardware - and yanno, it seems really silly to me that folks are arguing that lighter damage from a non-optimal source (plane crash, truckbomb) so easily takes down a concrete and steel building, WHILE also arguing that internally placed charges in optimal locations would require so MUCH more effort and explosive, on the face of it that makes no sense.
The owners of Controlled Demolition Inc said on History Channel it takes only 250 pounds of explosives to bring down a typical skyscraper.
CDI was paid $3-billion by the govt to "demolish" the WTC "after" 9/11...and just ignore those molten pools of lava from the Thermite and other unexploded ordnance.
CDI are those nice folks who were paid by the govt to "demolish" the OKC Fed building, before the lawyer of Sgt Tim McVeigh could get General Benton Parton to inspect the internal columns for explosive residue detonated at point-blank range.
It took me only 1 hour to install C4 explosives on multiple Fed govt buildings, for controlled demolitions of a dozen nukes in highly populated areas, in my job for the Fed govt...a common job for 100s if not 1,000s of Fed employees every day.
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Oh, just worth a note, something that bears a mention on this thing as a whole.
Might be worth some consideration that a couple of the issues I've worked on, such as abuses within the catholic church, the hellcamps, and a couple others - were, at the time I originally got my hooks into em, nothing more than "Urban Myth" and "Conspiracy Theory"...
But there weren't... were they ?
And how exactly did that change, save for the efforts of folks to keep digging, keep dragging it out into the light, keep exposing it to a public desperate to shove it back under the rug, until they couldn't deny it any more ?
And all the while being called liars, heretics, crazies, dismissed and ridiculed.
Same thing with those fucking ferret rounds at Waco, you can imagine I took my share and more of shit over that - of course it came out in the end that they not only did use em, but fired 400-650 of them, primarily in the vicinity of the children, causing sufficient displacement of oxygen to have asphixiated them irrespective of any other cause, and to assume they did not know that would be the result, or to allow that excuse, still kinda rooks me.
Ergo, concerning this thread...
This eventually WILL come out, more than likely, not cause someone talked, although that's possible, people talk, even if and especially when, they are not supposed to - but rather because it's virtually impossible to COMPLETELY obfuscate anything to where no evidence can be found whatever, and I don't mean physical evidence.
Believe me, after the OKC bombing, considering the "official story" they wanted to go with, the authorities tried to scrub ALL knowledge or mention of other devices from the official record (and you can see for yourself how well that worked, yes ? ), media coverage and public awareness... tried really damn hard too, but as mister universe said "everything goes somewhere." - and the gov runs on it's friggin paperwork, not a rivet falls but that it is flagged and recorded, in triplicate, and followed up with a memo ("rivet wasteage query ?"), so in many cases it simply isn't POSSIBLE to effectively purge everything - all they can do is heavily discourage looking, and demonization of those who call bullshit and question it is step one.
Folks forget that for as much as I play a good game of crash-boom-bang as an activist, my PRIMARY and more useful skillset is administrative - I was a friggin quartermaster, for cryin out loud, till the folks across the street realized I had real talent in doin much nastier things...
Which is what hung Judge Walters out to dry during the FLDS fiasco, since once you commit it to paper and sign it, you can't go denyin you said it, or did it - and once you put paperwork "in the system" via hardcopy or electronically, ESPECIALLY the latter, you ain't ever, ever gonna make it unhappen.
Especially when there's bastards like me who can nagivate the maze and know what to look for - and I don't mean playing their rigged game by their loaded rules and filing FOIA requests to be laughed at, ignored, or handed fake info...
(Go find out HOW the COINTELPRO program was exposed, hint: it was *not* via FOIA request!)
Reality doesn't work in nice, neat, straight lines - if there was involvement, even so much as a blind eye, no matter how buried or misfiled it may be, it's in there, somewhere, because people fuck up, it happens, and of course unless EVERYONE was completely in on it and on board with it, which is ludicrous... there's a trail of breadcrumbs somewhere down in there, by design, incompetence, or sheer mule headed rule obedience.
When it comes to this sort of thing, someone like me is like a goddamn oil derrick, and they WILL keep drilling till they find the fuck out, till they have enough to use, and they abso-friggin-lutely WILL NOT STOP, till they get what they're after, even if it takes decades.
Point A: The official story is bullshit.
Point B: Those in charge of cooking it up had SOME reason to feel the need to lie about it.
Point C: Therefore some evidence of exa
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Quote:Thank you for summarizing it so succinctly.
Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
Point A: The official story is bullshit.
Point B: Those in charge of cooking it up had SOME reason to feel the need to lie about it.
Point C: Therefore some evidence of exactly why that is very likely exists SOMEWHERE "in the system".
Another thought I had. If we can conceive of magic ninjas who train loosely in some camp in the desert who can crash 4 planes, demolish 2 towers, and put a big fucking hole in THE PENTAGON, why is it so hard to conceive that there might be magic ninjas trained and operating in our own military and government who can do the same thing? If it is a matter of skills, it is a lot more credible to see our people with these skills than theirs.
It comes down to emotional need to believe Americans are too good for this kind of deed. But, but, but, OUR magic ninjas wouldn't do that to our own people! It is INCONCEIVABLE that an American would kill so many other Americans. Speaking of motivations, THAT need for denial, for rejection of anything that threatens our belief in American goodness, is why so many people refuse to accept the blatant lies of the official story.
Motivations go both ways.
Possible explanations don't have to involve a huge number of people on our end. What if it was the work for an allied country, say one with strong military training who can pull this type of stunt off, with the collaboration of a just few key people here who helped them get by our security measures?
What if it was just one small group of magic ninjas, who were either blackmailed or whose families were threatened by a few inscrupulous evil dudes? What if they were under the notion that the death toll wouldn't be that much?
What if the few evil American dudes simply hired mercs from abroad and didn't use any of our own magic ninjas?
I don't know, but there are so many possibilities on how it would only take very few collaborators on our end who are willing to kill 3000 lives. It is not inconceivable that there are a few of those in a country of 300 million.
Remember Americans have been ruthlessly stealing other Americans blind on Wall Street for decades. Americans are not immune to dastardly deeds against our own.
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Quote:It doesn't take magic ninjas to hijack planes and crash them. It just takes crazy people and a plan--and one ginormous helping of "catching 'em with their pants down." 9/11 will never happen again, that barn door is closed. I called the folks planting all the bombs "magic ninjas" because no one has seen them and they were able to plant bombs all over, what were at the time, two of the busiest buildings on planet Earth, that would work in concert with jet liners crashing into the WTC to bring the buildings down straight into the ground--to no greater purpose than that they're neat-freaks--a feat of unprecedented engineering mastery, intuition and inutility.
Originally posted by canttakesky:Quote:Thank you for summarizing it so succinctly.
Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
Point A: The official story is bullshit.
Point B: Those in charge of cooking it up had SOME reason to feel the need to lie about it.
Point C: Therefore some evidence of exactly why that is very likely exists SOMEWHERE "in the system".
Another thought I had. If we can conceive of magic ninjas who train loosely in some camp in the desert who can crash 4 planes, demolish 2 towers, and put a big fucking hole in THE PENTAGON, why is it so hard to conceive that there might be magic ninjas trained and operating in our own military and government who can do the same thing? If it is a matter of skills, it is a lot more credible to see our people with these skills than theirs.
I for one am not saying that the "official story" is the truth. It's obviously not. They can't even admit to shooting down flight 93--a perfectly legitimate, albeit tragic, military action, as far as I can tell. One instance where we ACTUALLY did something to stop the fucking planes. These guys are professional liars and they have no end of embarrassing secrets to keep. We can't say just because they lied that they're behind the attacks--only that they have a vested interest in not telling us what really happened.
I have no problem with the idea that certain folk in our government knew what was afoot and did nothing to stop it. Somebody's gotta be reading those "Bin Laden targeting NY" memos even if Dubya never did. I have no problem with the idea that some senior folk in the Bush admin. wanted very badly for something like this to happen (PNAC, etc.). But y'know, when you want something really, really badly, particularly something that you consider "really mean," something you could never admit to; when the crucial moment comes and you see this really bad thing coming down the pike and you could stop it, right then, dead in its tracks...do you? You hesitate, don't you? And maybe you keep hesitating until...oops, it's too late. Oh well. Shit happens. You just "let it happen on purpose." That I can see. And I can see Dick Cheney wanting it to happen so badly that he organizes a little simulation drill to confuse NORAD. He's a bad man, no doubt.
CIA involvement? I could go both ways. 'Cause those assholes are both shockingly myopic/flat out incompetent and treasure the fantasy that nothing on this globe happens without them knowing about it.
The bomb thing is just stupid. I certainly would not be at all surprised if the bomb thing were quite entirely planted by TPTB to poison the well. They're looking over the footage of the event, brainstorming for disinformation strategies and one of 'em says, "Hey, see how those windows are blowing out every now and then down below? What if we circulated the rumor that those were all bombs?" And that guy gets a fat raise and a bonus.
Quote:[
It comes down to emotional need to believe Americans are too good for this kind of deed. But, but, but, OUR magic ninjas wouldn't do that to our own people! It is INCONCEIVABLE that an American would kill so many other Americans. Speaking of motivations, THAT need for denial, for rejection of anything that threatens our belief in American goodness, is why so many people refuse to accept the blatant lies of the official story.
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